Solid axle tech.

[Nick]

I think it's safe to say that none of us here look down on a solid axle truck. Some fine examples are the Moss Bros, multi time class 3 champs, and a testament to good prep.


Another, while not a bronco is Darren Skiltons class 3 jeep. In his last 2 baja races he finished ahead of most of the class 8 trucks.


So let's see some good solid axle tech!

[Silverslk]

I'm with Nick, while we prefer TTB we don't look down at solid axle. Post up!!!!

Solid axle can get it done just not quite as smooth.

[Rednek Renegade]

Subscribed!

[Broncodawg]

Subscribed for my 77.

[Nick]

Subscribed for my 77.

Now get someone to post some tech...

[magic carpet XLT]

the tech part is easy:
keep it as light as possible
fit as many shocks as possible
squeeze as much travel out of it as possible
make it as strong as possible
keep it as simple as possible
dial it in as much as possible

[78Class3]

I'll see if I can get some answers here. Is it a bad Idea to fab up the lower bypass shock mount as far out on the axle as possible? Meaning, welding the shock bracket to the knuckle and the axle?

[philofab]

I'll see if I can get some answers here. Is it a bad Idea to fab up the lower bypass shock mount as far out on the axle as possible? Meaning, welding the shock bracket to the knuckle and the axle?

The farther out on the axle (and closer to the wheel) the better a shock can perform. It also is best if the shock is as close to 90 degrees from the axle up and down movement. This makes the shock most effective. Of course in the real world you have to clear engines, brakes, length restrictions and deal with off the shelf springs.

[Dust]

...back in the early 80's I did a long travel SA Bronco.
Shocks were the thing and all I had was white cans.
I achieved 18" of travel and it went near 50k-miles with only maintenance, zero broken bits.
I admittedly did not race it, I admittedly did abuse it at speed for years!
I'm doing two new SA trucks this year, before I take on my first TTB.

[78Class3]

But welding the shock bracket to the knuckle would be fine right....? I may end up with a 4 or 5 degree latearal tilt to the bypass and a slight 4 or 5 degree medial (other way)tilt to the coilover. Do you think this will pose a problem?

[johncharlesb]

My previous solid axle trucks were an EB, 79 F150, CJ5, Excursion diesel, Cherokee, etc. I am contemplating a solid front build after I get the rear together on my f100. I was thinking of going from front leafs to coilovers. Here are some of my concerns:

If starting from scratch, should it be a three link or a radius arm truck with a panhard? Would a three link provide better axle caster location throughout the travel? Is a three link weaker than a radius arm truck?

In another thread someone mentioned front leaf setups. What are the practical travel limits here? I have a front leaf setup that looks seriously limited on bump travel because of the axle/spring location at the frame. Is it worthwhile to build a front leaf setup? Spring under or more lift for bump? What travel numbers and how well it would work if you justed bolted on springs and shackles then weld mounts for new shocks ($1,300+)?

A solid axle is going to need a longer shock for the same travel versus a ttb. At what or any point is it better to get a larger shock mounted at 1.5:1 versus a longer shock at 1:1?

"But welding the shock bracket to the knuckle would be fine right....?"
I would try to get the lower shock bracket over to the axle tube and the knuckle. Can you gusset the knuckle at the same time you build lower mounts?

[MOSS2]

But welding the shock bracket to the knuckle would be fine right....? I may end up with a 4 or 5 degree latearal tilt to the bypass and a slight 4 or 5 degree medial (other way)tilt to the coilover. Do you think this will pose a problem?

I think you should be okay hooking it to the 'C' or the crook between the tube and C as long as it cycles without rubbing the tires. Make sure you try one wheel all up the other down and both ways steering lock to lock. That is not enough angle to change the way the shock behaves to much but it will work the heims in the ends more. Make sure the shock mounts dont bind at same extreme travel and steering limits too.

[MOSS2]

My previous solid axle trucks were an EB, 79 F150, CJ5, Excursion diesel, Cherokee, etc. I am contemplating a solid front build after I get the rear together on my f100. I was thinking of going from front leafs to coilovers. Here are some of my concerns:

If starting from scratch, should it be a three link or a radius arm truck with a panhard? Would a three link provide better axle caster location throughout the travel? Is a three link weaker than a radius arm truck?

In another thread someone mentioned front leaf setups. What are the practical travel limits here? I have a front leaf setup that looks seriously limited on bump travel because of the axle/spring location at the frame. Is it worthwhile to build a front leaf setup? Spring under or more lift for bump? What travel numbers and how well it would work if you justed bolted on springs and shackles then weld mounts for new shocks ($1,300+)?

If you want to be driving it instead of working on it forever my vote would be Radius arms with a Panhard bar and mimmic or use as much stock Ford geometry as you can get. If you know somebody that build 3 or 4 link front rock crawler stuff all the time you might be able to go that route but the steering always looks sketchy to me on most of those. The problem with leafs and links that travel straight up and down is crossover steering. The steering travels in an arc giving plenty of bump steer. This is why stock Blazers and Toyota SA trucks have drag link steering. that try and follow the arc of the leaf in travel. Rock Crawlers can deal with the bump steer of cross over steering and swap to gain some travel. I would get 14" shocks and shoot for 12 to 14" travel. Without spending a crazy amount of time engineering and testing more travel is not realistic. 4 parallel Links with a Panhard would be pretty easy too. One of the guys that helps us on our team has a F100 with a TTB and 4 link and built it in the 80s. Now that is a neat truck!

[SteveG]

One of the guys that helps us on our team has a F100 with a TTB and 4 link and built it in the 80s. Now that is a neat truck!

That's something I've wanted to do for a long time. I almost bought a F100 on an F150 chassis a few years ago but the body was in really rough shape.

[Dust]

My previous solid axle trucks were an EB, 79 F150, CJ5, Excursion diesel, Cherokee, etc. I am contemplating a solid front build after I get the rear together on my f100. I was thinking of going from front leafs to coilovers. Here are some of my concerns:

If starting from scratch, should it be a three link or a radius arm truck with a panhard? Would a three link provide better axle caster location throughout the travel? Is a three link weaker than a radius arm truck?

In another thread someone mentioned front leaf setups. What are the practical travel limits here? I have a front leaf setup that looks seriously limited on bump travel because of the axle/spring location at the frame. Is it worthwhile to build a front leaf setup? Spring under or more lift for bump? What travel numbers and how well it would work if you justed bolted on springs and shackles then weld mounts for new shocks ($1,300+)?

A solid axle is going to need a longer shock for the same travel versus a ttb. At what or any point is it better to get a larger shock mounted at 1.5:1 versus a longer shock at 1:1?

"But welding the shock bracket to the knuckle would be fine right....?"
I would try to get the lower shock bracket over to the axle tube and the knuckle. Can you gusset the knuckle at the same time you build lower mounts?

I'll venture "my opinions"...
Forget leaf-springs in the front. Mine rides nice, soaks up the bumps and I have I think something like 3" before the spring hits the frame..... Fine in a work truck but a bit harsh in a go fast

If you have never ventured into Link design then I'll recommend the tried and true Radius arm design.
Simple and it works. It also has the attribute of simply bolting on if you use the factory parts combo: D44 etc. Gusseting the "C" is a good idea and the lower shock mount has been located there many many times.
As Moss mentioned in another thread, the loading on the Track or Panhard can be an issue I never had a problem BUT I was not racing, just going fast. The key thing in the steering is to get the Track and the Drag link at the same angles.

My other choice would be a parallel 4 link with Panhard (5-link) Particularly if you are going to upgrade the axle from a D44 to a D60.

Shock lengths between the TTB and the SA, if the mounting points are in the same place and if the radius arms are the same length will be similar for a given travel number. The TTB can have slightly more droop travel, which at some point "I think" is not desirable. WTFDIK?
Mount the CO and Bypass so that they go 90° a few inches before the bump stops. I would put the Bypass behind the axle if it will fit. It is protected, and it will take less stroke for the same travel, and we all know that when buying shocks you get stroked by the inch

[78Class3]

Front shock mount on solid axle
Here is a pick of what I've been tinkering with over the weekend for the front shock mount. Any suggestions, or critizisms let em fly.

[Dust]

That looks like a 78/79 axle and if so the tube comes out of the center housing and then goes into a cast steel section then back to tube and into the forged "C".
If you weld it to the cast section you should pre/post heat it, and I would weld it with TIG and 308 SS filler.
Not that it can't be MIG'd but you may find it cracking... Why Ford had Dana build this way eludes me.
For a stronger housing over-all look for an F250 D44 in the 78/79 era, and convert it back to 5-lug with your outers. Thicker tube walls, etc, and IIRC it is an inch or two wider, but I could be wrong there.
If I was to do another 78/9 to go fast I would run the F250 D44 front, using the wedgies that several companies sell if I stayed with OE R-Arms, and or a derivative of the "Cage" SAS arm mount if not staying with the OE-Ford arms. I would run GM Knuckles and brakes, followed with a pre-77 D60 in the rear with upgraded shafts; to narrow the rear track a bit over the later rear axles... Hmmmmm... that is exactly what I am going to do with one of the rolling chassis

[Dust]

Would I get in trouble for saying that is the single sexiest Bronco ever built...

[Nick]

It is nice, but the sexiest ever built?

[Dust]

It is nice, but the sexiest ever built?

Yup! Flat out!