Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

outlaws4x4
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Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Hi i am hoping somone can help me out with some information on the ball joints on a Dana50 IFS.

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I brought the housing as is and have had to rebuild almost all of it. I dont know what year or series truck it is off exactly. i think it is off a F250-F350 year 1980-1992 like i said im not 100% sure.
Dose somone know what the part numbers are for a set of ball joints for this houing? Also where would be a good place to buy some from? I am in Austalia and i have already ordered one set but they turned out to be wrong, they look like they have the wrong taper.

This is the ball joints i am talking about...
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Thankyou
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Tchajagos
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by Tchajagos »

They might be D44HD beams which I believe would have a different taper. I'm sure Steve will chime in here pretty soon.
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AussieRod
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by AussieRod »

They look like D50 hubs to me, (large dia. = D50, smaller F150/Bronco size = D44HD). The upper BJ is the same as D44, etc. but the lower BJ is D50 specific. It has the D44HD body, with the larger D60 stud.
outlaws4x4
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

That sort of makes sense that the lower one is different because thats the one i had major trouble trying to do up. It would just spin. the top one seamed to be ok.

any body got any part numbers and recommendation on where the best place to get them from is??
Also are there any extra strong ones this is for a race truck im building.

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been a long build just getting the body all mounted then paint then bolt everything back on. which is why im trying to sort out the right ball joints so i have them ready when it comes time to put the front end back together.
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by philofab »

You don't need anything special for a lower BJ, they will handle 37" & 39" tires with ease. What you have there is a D50.

The part number you want will cross reference with Motorcraft 10383.


Many times the part number 10253 will come up, which is a Dana44/44HD part, this front axle was much more common on a 3/4 ton truck than the 50. To complicate things, the F350 was available with a Dana 60 solid axle which uses different ball joints.
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by kylesgorter »

I was just looking up the motorcraft part # and noticed philo posted it. Those balljoints are very strong.

How much wider did you go on your race truck? That build looks really cool!
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by philofab »

If you would, please post more photos and info on your setup. There are only a handful of D44HD/D50 builds in the world. I think besides Tom and I, you are one of the few to mess with these.

The weakest point in this whole setup is the splines on the axles, but the wheel bearings and ball joints are very strong, plus the spread between them is also much wider than a regular Dana 44 TTB.

Is you Class 6 the same as ours? If so, are you planning on running this in 4wd full time?
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outlaws4x4
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

Thanks for your help guys. I do have a full build thread of my truck on my web site http://www.outlaws4x4.com called

"New Outlaws4x4 off-road class 8 race truck"http://outlaws4x4.com/?page_id=266/show-us-your-rig/

If you do check it out you will probably laugh at how different my build is now as to when i started. I have been building this truck now for about 2 years in my workshop in my spare time. Originally i was into what we call in Australia "winch challenge racing" which is like off-road racing with sections of the track which are impossible to drive and you must winch up and over and then keep on racing. I like the speed aspect of winch challenge racing which made me want to get into plain off-road racing. We don't desert race per-say here in Australia we more race off-road through different country.

Well our off-road racing classes are similar to yours but not the same.
Our biggest flaw is even our unlimited classes have engine restrictions to either 6000cc capacity naturally aspirated or 3500cc forced induction. This i believe is our major down fall as it restricts so many international competitors coming and competing in our off-road competition. The two biggest off-road races we have here in Australia is the "Finke desert race" and the "Gasgoyne Dash"

These are our offroad classes.
Pro Buggy - Buggy with engines 3500cc to 6000cc and all Turbo engined buggies
Pro Lite Buggy - Buggies with engines 1651cc to 3500cc
Super 1650 - Buggies with engines up to 1650cc and two seats
Sportsman - Buggies with engines up to 1330cc and two seats
Extreme 2WD - Highly modified 2WD Vehicles with engines up to 6000cc (This is our unlimited truck class where Trophy trucks fit in)
Performance 2WD - 2WD vehicles with engines up to 6000cc (Production class)
Clubman - Restricted Buggies
Production 4WD - Production 4WD vehicles with engines up to 6000cc
Extreme 4WD - Highly modified 4WD vehicles with engines up to 6000cc (This is our other unlimited truck class but 4x4 This is the class i am in, it is also known as class 8)



Well in answer to a couple of your questions, At this stage i will be running 4wd full time. It will all just depend on how it handles and if the front axles can handle it. currently they will only be cut and sleeved so strength will be an issue i think. I am looking at running 35 or 37" tyres however i currently have set the truck up on 33"s

I have extended the beams by about 6" on both side so 12" total and have used a mounting similar to standard the front end will have 18" of 4wd travel. the front end is 90" wide

here is a couple more pics of the front end.

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Full bump steering set up with steering box and idle arm.

And here is a shot at ride height. i dont like the amount the steering linkage had to be bent so i will be making another one with slightly less of a bend the absolute minimum to clear at full bump and i was also thinking of making that one arms out of something stronger and thicker.
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by philofab »

The splines of the axle will fail before the sleeve. Dana 50 use the same 30 spline ends as a Dana 44. The best bet for it surviving is an open differential.

My Dana 50 ended up being 92" wide with 37" tires. 6" extension per beam.
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outlaws4x4
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

Yeh i was going to run open in the front as i thought the same, it would be less harsh on the axles.

how do you find the dana 50 and the handling? I have taken the biggest gamble building this. i wanted to have IFS but could not afford to go A-arm and i wanted to stay in the 4wd class so i was not up against people with unlimited $$$. The majority of the unlimited 4wd class here in Australia have not made use of all the rules and most just bolt a worked V8 into there fairly standard trucks and run that. So im hoping that my truck will be a top runner against them :)
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

Another little problem i have which hopfully some of you have had and solved is....
I had a set of Method race wheels made. however i cant fit my socket over the nut to do them up. i need to find a smaller nut or a cap head nut. Oh and i have already ground the socket down to wafer thin and it still wont fit.

any ideas thanks
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

do you race yours philofab? what ratios are you running with 37" tyres? also what transmition you got and engine you running?
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by philofab »

My truck is just a play truck. Crew cab F250, 7.5L Ford Big Block, 4R100/E4OD trans, 4.11 gears. The handling is fine, 151" wheelbase though. The same basic suspension is used on our Broncos and Tom's truck and neither have any real handling issues. I believe his truck has a few minor high speed issues due to steering and shock angle but he is working on it.

What stud are you running for wheels and what taper? They make long lug nuts and socket cap allen nuts that can solve this problem. The other possibility is to have the hole opened up at a machinist.

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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

Those nuts look like they will do the trick. where about's would i buys some of them from?

I am running a th400 i see that the 4R100/E4OD trans has an overdrive 4th gear. do you use 4th gear much? how fast do you think you could go in 3rd which is your 1:1 gear? i am just trying to get a practice idea of what speeds are achievable with the 4.1 gears. I have 4.1 gears in my dana 50 at the moment but i had my custom hybrid dana60/ford 9" built with 5.14 gears and i have to buy either a set of dana 50 5.13 gears or a set of 4.1 ford 9" gears.
I have worked out a theoretical top speed but this does not account for friction,traction loss and wind. my theoretical calculation with 305/70R17 tyre approx 34" tyres and 4.1 ratio at 7200rpm in 3rd gear would be 284km/h or 176mph

thanks for answering all my questions too. i have heaps more coming :)

cheers
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by drewbee88 »

Here is what I use to figure out my gearing and top speed, you can manually enter your gears or select from list, really useful tool! http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by hobbyturnedobsession »

Nice! It appears to be dead on
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by philofab »

outlaws4x4 wrote:I am running a th400 i see that the 4R100/E4OD trans has an overdrive 4th gear. do you use 4th gear much? how fast do you think you could go in 3rd which is your 1:1 gear? i am just trying to get a practice idea of what speeds are achievable with the 4.1 gears. I have 4.1 gears in my dana 50 at the moment but i had my custom hybrid dana60/ford 9" built with 5.14 gears and i have to buy either a set of dana 50 5.13 gears or a set of 4.1 ford 9" gears.
I have worked out a theoretical top speed but this does not account for friction,traction loss and wind. my theoretical calculation with 305/70R17 tyre approx 34" tyres and 4.1 ratio at 7200rpm in 3rd gear would be 284km/h or 176mph

I use OD on the highway only. The rest of the time 3rd is good to about 100 mph. Be aware the rev limiter is set quite low on my engine, 5,100 rpm or so. I'd run a lower gear but I have plans to repower it with a 4cyl Cummins.


The lug nuts are available from Summit Racing and many other places. What size and thread stud are you running? Choices get smaller as the stud get larger, IE 5/8-18.
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by drewbee88 »

philofab wrote:


I use OD on the highway only. The rest of the time 3rd is good to about 100 mph. Be aware the rev limiter is set quite low on my engine, 5,100 rpm or so. I'd run a lower gear but I have plans to repower it with a 4cyl Cummins.


The lug nuts are available from Summit Racing and many other places. What size and thread stud are you running? Choices get smaller as the stud get larger, IE 5/8-18.
4bt swap would be awesome. Always wanted to do one in the ranger, talk about good gas milage. Never thought about the bronco. Would be a easy swap.... hmmmmmm now you got me looking for bread vans ;-)
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by philofab »

drewbee88 wrote:4bt swap would be awesome. Always wanted to do one in the ranger, talk about good gas milage. Never thought about the bronco. Would be a easy swap.... hmmmmmm now you got me looking for bread vans ;-)
This would actually be for my F250, not the Bronco. Mileage is the main reason... 6-8mpg sucks when you pay at the pump.
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Re: Help with ball joints on a IFS Dana50

Post by outlaws4x4 »

well ill look today what studs i have. Do you think 5.13 ratio will be to high? Also am i right in thinking that the Dana 50 used a revers cut ring and pinion gear or a standard cut? because if i buy a set of 5.13 i need to know which one to order.

I did a little more work on my truck today im still trying to get frame work in place to hold the body. i also made up the front bar work. with a litle nerf bar :)

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