Upgrading heads on a factory roller 351. Help please

[Seabass]

I'm thinking of throwing heads and a cam on my truck to help wake it up but have gotten a bit confused after doing some reading. I haven't been able to find a consistent number online when trying to figure out what factory piston dish size is. I found one guy saying non roller 351s came with -16cc dish pistons but roller 351s have -22cc dish pistons. Any one on here know this to be true or not?

Second I have E7 heads that should have a 62cc chamber. I think this is one of the smaller factory chambers out there. Te reason I say that is because most upgraded heads for the mustang crowd are going the wrong way in chamber size. 65cc, 70cc. There are still allot of 60cc heads out there but I don't know if they'll really be worth all the cost and effort of changing the heads for only a 2cc drop in chamber size. Does any one make a 55cc head?

Any one on here got some advise? I've joined a couple of other ford engine forums but it seems all those guys do is build straight line motors and don't wanna throw any love towards the bronco geek looking for help.

[philofab]

I would worry less about CC size and just buy a good head you like. The flow difference will make way more power than a few points of compression. The only thing that sucks is that aluminum heads will pull the heat out of the chamber so fast you will loose a bit of power that way unless you have compression to make up for it. Iron heads may be a better choice.

What heads were/are you looking for?

[Seabass]

I've been shopping by what ever becomes available used =) I'm trying to learn as much as possible on the subject so that when the right deal comes up I can jump on it. Hoping to find 205 afrs, or equivilant trick flows, or canfields. Edelbrock E-series heads don't seem flow enough for 351+ cu according to the mustang guys.

More confusion, are all canfields high ports? If so their out. I don't want anything custom looking jumping out for those who it may concern out here in Cali.

I'd really like to at least get a few point compression out of all the money it's gonna take to do this. But if 60cc is what I wind up finding for the right price the compression may just have to wait untill the pistons get changed next time the motor gets overhauled.

[Seabass]

I should also add that if when the motor fails if I have the funds available there is a good chance it may jump up to a 383, 393 or 408. So a head that some one has the cnc program for to open up in the futur is a plus. This hopefully will be way down the line and isn't a deal breaker by any mean.

[robertcrav]

Not sure if you've seen it or not, but there is a member on FSB that built/re-built a stroker with AFR185s that makes good hp/tq
290hp/390tq to the ground...

http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160210

[MOSS2]

Might check out this link. Gobs of information to sort through.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

Check the flow rates in the cam lift range you are going to run. Big 205 heads wont neccessarily outflow smaller heads at low lifts. AFR185 numbers look pretty good at low lifts.

[AussieRod]

I would stick to a AFR 165 or maybe the 185 or equivalent as the biggest head to use. Remember, a Bronco needs torque, not horsepower to perform better. Even a 165 head will outflow any stock SBF head, so it will be an improvement. However, the intake is a major cork for the 5.8L, a good upgrade will include the Edelbrock intake and a good exhaust upgrade to balance out the package.

[Seabass]

10-4 Rod. Already got an Edelbrock intake and Bassani y-pipe adding HP to the shelves in my garage=)

185s...I can see but 165s... you really think so? (not trying to be facetious ) What info I have soaked up from the mustang forums has made me small runner shy.

Robert: I've read Seattle's build, cool guy I know he's on here as well. He's chimed in on my questions in the 393 stroker build thread. I hope he chimes in here.

Moss: Thanks for the link I'll have to read through it tonight when I'm off. It's blocked here at the work.

Any one on here done something similar and care to chime in what they used and what you'd do second time around?

[Seattle FSB]

I would definitely go with the AFR 185 head for a 351w based engine. My heads had a lot of work prior to install, but these AFRs are reportedly excellent straight out of the box. Regarding piston dish size, I am using SRP Forged Mahle 31cc Inverted Dome Pistons as I have a 4" stroked 351w based engine. I used forged pistons in case I want to go forced air induction in the future, and dished to keep the compression down for the same reason - and to stay pump gas compatable and emissions friendly. A stroker inherently has torque due to increased displacement. The idea is to effectively manage it to minimize detonation.

Piston design really depends on what type of compression you want to run. Compression depends on the size of the cylinder head combustion chambers, the compressed thickness of your head gaskets, piston-to-deck clearance, and the dish or dome volume of your pistons. Not being an expert in engine design, I chose to refer to a respected race shop for their advice to meet my goals. There is a lot to consider when selecting the correct piston dish size and I highly recommend speaking with various piston manufacturers for their recommendations. See this article: Piston Fundamentals

[AussieRod]

10-4 Rod. Already got an Edelbrock intake and Bassani y-pipe adding HP to the shelves in my garage=)

185s...I can see but 165s... you really think so? (not trying to be facetious ) What info I have soaked up from the mustang forums has made me small runner shy.

Robert: I've read Seattle's build, cool guy I know he's on here as well. He's chimed in on my questions in the 393 stroker build thread. I hope he chimes in here.

Moss: Thanks for the link I'll have to read through it tonight when I'm off. It's blocked here at the work.

Any one on here done something similar and care to chime in what they used and what you'd do second time around?

Keep in mind, what works for a lightweight Mustang wont always work in a heavy Bronco. I am currently building a reman 5.0L for my brother's Falcon here. We are using the AFR 165 heads with the FRPP E303 cam, Explorer intake and headers. I was impressed by the finish and port shapes in the AFR head compared to the E7 head. Believe me, the 165 will give excellent torque and HP on a 5.8L in good mechanical condition. A small-ish head is better for a DD, because it is port velocity that is most important for torque production, not total flow. The 165 has a smaller 58cc combustion chamber too, which will add a small compression increase. Adding comp will increase the efficiency of the combustion process and release more power from the fuel/air mixture. Aluminum heads, while drawing a very small percentage of heat from the chamber as Philo said, also help the chamber from creating detonation from excess chamber wall temps. I always try to err on the side of smaller than bigger, only because I prefer to trade top-end HP for low and mid-range torque, besides, I can always go bigger later on, rather than having to redo the combo because its too hot for the intended use. The modified 185 heads on SeattleFSB's beast are quite suitable because the extra stroke increases piston speed off TDC, which really helps move the air thru the port, creating good air velocity. With the stock 3.5" stroke and stock camshaft (or upgrade to the Mustang HO roller, lifters and dist gear) the 165 head will make excellent torque, will be more efficient (and smog legal) and give better fuel consumtion (assuming you can stay off the loud pedal). If you were upgrading to a 392 stroker kit, then I would suggest the AFR 185 or equivalent alloy heads. Let me finish by saying that your intake will still be the major cork in the combo, but it will still work better than the stock intake and will still make good low and mid-range torque, which is the goal to move that heavy Bronco.

[Piyakoracing]

what cam are you planning to run in the bronco, speed density need lsa of 114. if the cam has a lift of .500 for example look at the charts and see what heads flow better at .500 lift, that way you dont overspend on heads like the 205's that flow way more with a bigger cam.

[Seabass]

I got a maf truck so cam shopping will be easier on me.
I have this idea in my head that if I running 4.88's and a loose converter I can get away with a lumpier cam without sacrificing bottom end. I'm still weighing my options on this one. Cam selection is an art that I'll probably wind up having someone smarter than me do.

I'm hoping to find a set of 58cc chambered twisted wedges with 170 runners now. Most of whats out there is 61cc though so I may be waiting a while.