We keep flopping over.
- Dezurfer
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:19 pm
- Bronco Info: Jeep Wrangler frt D44 TTB 14" coilovers, 12res shocks 4.88's, rear Deavers 14" res
- Location: Houston via San Diego
We keep flopping over.
Right now I have as much negative camber you can get. The driver side sits negative at ride height but the pass side sits 0. This has been a big problem coming into left turns getting big time tire scrub & putting it on its lid really easy. Same has happen once turning right.
We are making a determination of dropping the overall ride height. So, it sits negative on both sides. Doing spring under in the rear & lower spring rate in front.
Spring rate right now is 300/400 & thinking going less.
This last race was short coarse & had to baby all the turns after I put it on its lid in practice. Not sure if I should shorten the front limits straps, add a sway bar or missing some trick with driving a TTB. The driver tire will sit even at speed & sitting still look like the correct negative camber. I think with the limiting straps it has about 16" of front travel.
We are making a determination of dropping the overall ride height. So, it sits negative on both sides. Doing spring under in the rear & lower spring rate in front.
Spring rate right now is 300/400 & thinking going less.
This last race was short coarse & had to baby all the turns after I put it on its lid in practice. Not sure if I should shorten the front limits straps, add a sway bar or missing some trick with driving a TTB. The driver tire will sit even at speed & sitting still look like the correct negative camber. I think with the limiting straps it has about 16" of front travel.
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- SteveG
- Admin
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Re: We keep flopping over.
It looks like you might have more than one geometry issue. Are you you sure the steering is correct? Why isn't camber correct (matching)?
Lastly, beam front ends have a natural tendency to "jack when going around corners. Maybe induce oversteer so you can swing the ass end around... probably not fun a in a tall jeep.
P.S. Those photos are quite large.
Lastly, beam front ends have a natural tendency to "jack when going around corners. Maybe induce oversteer so you can swing the ass end around... probably not fun a in a tall jeep.
P.S. Those photos are quite large.
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Rmc
- El Jefe
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Re: We keep flopping over.
Lower the ride height about a foot for short course, you want the lowest center of gravity you can get away with, also your front tires should be inflated to alot harder than what's in the first pic. I'd also consider regearing or changing rear tires to make it spin out easier vs grabbing. It's a fine balance to drift but the super short wheelbase is your biggest disadvantage. Consider 40% uptravel max the rest down travel. A stiffer rear leaf set up farther into the progression will reduce the body roll as well as a sway bar. Look at the speedway engineering bars, get a pretty large diameter bar and go test. Turn the diameter down on a lathe repeatedly until you find a place that's stable but retains enough articulation to keep the wheels to the ground as much as possible. The diameter of the bar is its twist resistance, so smaller means more flex. There is no trick to driving beams vs a arms just stab it and steer it. I'd revisit your steering set up as a whole and check for toe changes through the entire cycle the lower you can make the toe change number the better off you'll be. Go wide as well to add stability. Wide low and squishy but very firm into the progression. Springs only hold the thing up do the rest in valving. You may consider a triple rate spring set up as well to get more squat but won't interfear with your coil sliders. It also depends on wheel speed rebound too if the bumps are not being soaked up properly. Your beams may need to be tweaked a bit camber wise but its Just some stuff to try.
Oh ya and when it's starts going over smash the shit out of the throttle it just may cause a spin out vs ass over applecart. A quick steer or very responsive power steering set up is a must. You should set up for a corner by breaking loose in the opposing direction before you enter the turn. The wheel spin is created in this set up. Like little pitch out ( the direction you don't plan on going) then hard the opposing way ( into the intended direction) at full throttle into the turn. Break into the corner accelerate out. Never brake in a turn it spells disaster. For what it's worth, I hope it helps you. These guys may say I'm full of it but its stuff that works for me.
Oh ya and when it's starts going over smash the shit out of the throttle it just may cause a spin out vs ass over applecart. A quick steer or very responsive power steering set up is a must. You should set up for a corner by breaking loose in the opposing direction before you enter the turn. The wheel spin is created in this set up. Like little pitch out ( the direction you don't plan on going) then hard the opposing way ( into the intended direction) at full throttle into the turn. Break into the corner accelerate out. Never brake in a turn it spells disaster. For what it's worth, I hope it helps you. These guys may say I'm full of it but its stuff that works for me.
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Rmc
- El Jefe
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Re: We keep flopping over.
Camber,ride height big time and steering in combo with traction vs controlled wheelspin seem to come to mind when I see the photos.
- SteveG
- Admin
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Re: We keep flopping over.
A lower ride-height would definitely help.Rmc wrote:Lower the ride height about a foot for short course....
How much bump travel does it have? How much do you actually need?
- BDKW1
- Posts: 1518
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Re: We keep flopping over.
Have you relocated the bottom ball joint outward yet? AKA notch the beams? Or are you just using the largest eccentrics you can find?
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big-d
- Posts: 54
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- Bronco Info: 1987 F150, 351W/418 Stroker, E4OD, F250 1356 W/fixed yokes, Sterling 10.25, D50 TTB 4" over
Re: We keep flopping over.
Can you also post a better pic of the current steering? I see that you changed it up from the setup you were asking about the steering thread.
- Dezurfer
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:19 pm
- Bronco Info: Jeep Wrangler frt D44 TTB 14" coilovers, 12res shocks 4.88's, rear Deavers 14" res
- Location: Houston via San Diego
Re: We keep flopping over.
The last photo shows how much difference in driver & passenger camber at speed. Same relates stopped but driver sits like we want at negative. While the pass will sit 0.
Is it common to have each side complete different cambers?
Running 17psi as this race was both shortcoarse & rock crawling.
Cut & turn has already been done per Camburg instructions. We had adjustable cams & then put in the largest fixed available.
Steering is perfect, single swing steer & all issues fixed.
Is it common to have each side complete different cambers?
Running 17psi as this race was both shortcoarse & rock crawling.
Cut & turn has already been done per Camburg instructions. We had adjustable cams & then put in the largest fixed available.
Steering is perfect, single swing steer & all issues fixed.
Re: We keep flopping over.
You should have the same camber on both sides, that's what the adjusters are for. In a perfect world, the camber adjusters are set the same on each side, but you may need different settings on each side
- BDKW1
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Re: We keep flopping over.
While that may have been good for a F150/Bronco, your inner pivots look higher than what a factory Ford has. This would need more spacing on the lower or moving the upper in some to keep the axle centered. I would move the upper in 1/2"..........Dezurfer wrote:Cut & turn has already been done per Camburg instructions.
- philofab
- Basura Blanca
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Re: We keep flopping over.
Lowering the pivots would help a lot.
More PSI in the front tires would also help by reducing traction a little and keeping the tire from folding over and helping it roll.
More PSI in the front tires would also help by reducing traction a little and keeping the tire from folding over and helping it roll.
