Wish I found GFB before FSB
- sydude
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:53 am
- Bronco Info: 1992 Restored Bronco w/Built 302x, All Glass, Full Cage, Bilstein 9100's & Deavers
- Location: Westchester, NY
- Contact:
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
Here's the info (courtesy of Steve83 over at FSB) for body mounts and hardware.
Steve adds:
Body Mounts for 1994 Bronco ('80-96 similar; F-series cab mounts similar)
The rear bolts (view V) are 7/16"x14(NC) 6.5" long threaded 2.5" with a 5/8" head with large integral washer.
The 6 identical bolts are 7/16"x14(NC) 3.75" long threaded 2.5" with a 5/8" head with small integral washer.
The front bolts (view Z) are metric (no other details).
Note that the necked portion of the upper sleeve (part of the upper absorber) is designed to lock onto the lower sleeve (flared assembly nut) to hold the rubber in place on the frame on the assembly line. But it funnels dirt & water in around the 2 parts & the bolt threads, usually rust-welding them together. So the longer they're soaked with penetrating oil before disassembly, the more likely they are to come apart.
Once the bolt is backed out a few turns, spray more penetrant down into the upper sleeve to rinse the rust off the threads, and use a hammer & drift on the bolt head to separate the sleeves.
The core support mount (views U & Z) is different, and the bolt threads into it from below. It's virtually impossible to separate them, or even to unscrew the bolt. They usually have to be cut apart and replaced.
See also:
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/72356
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/71625
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/647745
Frame Strength Identification
F-Series, F-Super Duty Chassis Cab and Bronco all use a 36,000 psi steel frame.
Frame Service - Drilling Precautions
CAUTION: Do not drill holes in the frame flanges. This will reduce the strength of frame (5005).
If a hole must be drilled in the frame, make sure that it meets all of the following requirements:
1. The hole is located in the upper half of the frame.
2. The edge of the drilled hole and the edge of the nearest hole are at least 25mm (1 inch) apart.
3. The edge of the drilled hole is at least 25mm (1 inch) from the edge of the flange.
4. The drilled hole is not adjacent to any other existing brackets or components of frame.
Welding Precautions
CAUTION: Disconnect the battery ground cable (14301) before using any electric welding equipment.
All welding on frame must be done with electric welding equipment, and the heat should be kept in a small area to prevent change in hardness of the metal. Do not use gas welding equipment. A double reinforcement must be added to frames where heat or weld is applied to the area to be repaired. The welds are to run lengthwise along the reinforcement when a reinforcement is to be welded to the frame side rail.
Weld Attachment
To ensure a quality repair, adhere to the following procedure if it is necessary to weld reinforcements to the frame.
1. Wire brush the area around the crack to remove the paint, grease, mud, etc., and to expose the crack completely and ensure good weld adhesion.
2. To stop the crack from spreading, drill a 6.35mm (1/4-inch) hole at a point 12mm (0.50 inch) beyond the root of the crack.
3. Grind out the full length of the crack to the hole to form a V-shaped slot with the base of the V-slot contacting the reinforcement.
4. The base of the V-slot should have at least a 1.52mm (0.06-inch) opening to ensure weld penetration to the reinforcement when welding the crack.
5. Drill clearance holes in the reinforcements to clear rivet heads and bolt heads or nuts where necessary.
6. In the event that repair is required on more than one frame surface (i.e., a flange crack that extends into the web), two pieces of flat stock (one for each surface) should be utilized and welded together where they join. The web reinforcement should be a minimum of 76.20mm (3.0 inches) high and have a 63.50mm (2.5-inch) radius at each of the two corners.
7. Completely clean the surface of frame under and around the reinforcements.
8. Clamp the reinforcements securely to the frame prior to welding.
9. Weld the reinforcement all around after welding the crack V-slot.
10. The flange edge weld should be ground smooth after all pit holes have been filled by the weld.
11. If a damaged bolted-on frame bracket is to be replaced, the new bolts, washers, and nuts should be of the same specifications and bolt torques as the original parts.
12. In cases where it is necessary to remove rivets, replace them with Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8 ) nuts, bolts and washers of the next larger size (i.e., for 3/8-inch diameter rivets use 7/16-inch bolts, for 7/16-inch diameter rivets use 1/2-inch bolts). This requires line drilling of the holes to the same diameter as the new bolt (i.e., either 0.437 diameter or 0.500 diameter).
Frame Straightening
Misalignment of frame can be corrected by straightening the out-of-line parts or by replacing the crossmembers, braces, or brackets if they are badly damaged.
WARNING: DO NOT STRAIGHTEN FRONT FRAME RAIL CONVOLUTES.
Straightening should be attempted on frames that fail to meet specifications of the diagonal checking method or where damage is visually apparent.
However, to prevent internal stresses in the metal, frame straightening should be limited to parts that are not severely bent. If heat is needed to straighten a frame member, keep the temperature below 649�C (1200�F) (a dull red glow). Excessive heat may weaken the metal in the frame members and cause permanent damage.
Frame Reinforcing
After a bent frame member has been straightened, inspect the member closely for cracks. If any cracks show, the frame member should be reinforced or replaced.
Reinforcements should be made from angle or flat stock of the same material and thickness as the frame member being reinforced, and should extend a minimum of 152.40mm (6 inches) to either side of the crack. Ideally, the reinforcement should be cut from the corresponding area of a similar frame.
Frame Member Replacement
If a damaged frame member is to be replaced, new bolts, Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8 ) fasteners and rivets required for replacement of parts should be of the same specifications as the original bolts or rivets. In cases where it is necessary to substitute a bolt for a rivet, use the next larger size bolt.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/to ... build.html
https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/ ... efault.asp
Steve adds:
Body Mounts for 1994 Bronco ('80-96 similar; F-series cab mounts similar)
The rear bolts (view V) are 7/16"x14(NC) 6.5" long threaded 2.5" with a 5/8" head with large integral washer.
The 6 identical bolts are 7/16"x14(NC) 3.75" long threaded 2.5" with a 5/8" head with small integral washer.
The front bolts (view Z) are metric (no other details).
Note that the necked portion of the upper sleeve (part of the upper absorber) is designed to lock onto the lower sleeve (flared assembly nut) to hold the rubber in place on the frame on the assembly line. But it funnels dirt & water in around the 2 parts & the bolt threads, usually rust-welding them together. So the longer they're soaked with penetrating oil before disassembly, the more likely they are to come apart.
Once the bolt is backed out a few turns, spray more penetrant down into the upper sleeve to rinse the rust off the threads, and use a hammer & drift on the bolt head to separate the sleeves.
The core support mount (views U & Z) is different, and the bolt threads into it from below. It's virtually impossible to separate them, or even to unscrew the bolt. They usually have to be cut apart and replaced.
See also:
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/72356
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/71625
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/647745
Frame Strength Identification
F-Series, F-Super Duty Chassis Cab and Bronco all use a 36,000 psi steel frame.
Frame Service - Drilling Precautions
CAUTION: Do not drill holes in the frame flanges. This will reduce the strength of frame (5005).
If a hole must be drilled in the frame, make sure that it meets all of the following requirements:
1. The hole is located in the upper half of the frame.
2. The edge of the drilled hole and the edge of the nearest hole are at least 25mm (1 inch) apart.
3. The edge of the drilled hole is at least 25mm (1 inch) from the edge of the flange.
4. The drilled hole is not adjacent to any other existing brackets or components of frame.
Welding Precautions
CAUTION: Disconnect the battery ground cable (14301) before using any electric welding equipment.
All welding on frame must be done with electric welding equipment, and the heat should be kept in a small area to prevent change in hardness of the metal. Do not use gas welding equipment. A double reinforcement must be added to frames where heat or weld is applied to the area to be repaired. The welds are to run lengthwise along the reinforcement when a reinforcement is to be welded to the frame side rail.
Weld Attachment
To ensure a quality repair, adhere to the following procedure if it is necessary to weld reinforcements to the frame.
1. Wire brush the area around the crack to remove the paint, grease, mud, etc., and to expose the crack completely and ensure good weld adhesion.
2. To stop the crack from spreading, drill a 6.35mm (1/4-inch) hole at a point 12mm (0.50 inch) beyond the root of the crack.
3. Grind out the full length of the crack to the hole to form a V-shaped slot with the base of the V-slot contacting the reinforcement.
4. The base of the V-slot should have at least a 1.52mm (0.06-inch) opening to ensure weld penetration to the reinforcement when welding the crack.
5. Drill clearance holes in the reinforcements to clear rivet heads and bolt heads or nuts where necessary.
6. In the event that repair is required on more than one frame surface (i.e., a flange crack that extends into the web), two pieces of flat stock (one for each surface) should be utilized and welded together where they join. The web reinforcement should be a minimum of 76.20mm (3.0 inches) high and have a 63.50mm (2.5-inch) radius at each of the two corners.
7. Completely clean the surface of frame under and around the reinforcements.
8. Clamp the reinforcements securely to the frame prior to welding.
9. Weld the reinforcement all around after welding the crack V-slot.
10. The flange edge weld should be ground smooth after all pit holes have been filled by the weld.
11. If a damaged bolted-on frame bracket is to be replaced, the new bolts, washers, and nuts should be of the same specifications and bolt torques as the original parts.
12. In cases where it is necessary to remove rivets, replace them with Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8 ) nuts, bolts and washers of the next larger size (i.e., for 3/8-inch diameter rivets use 7/16-inch bolts, for 7/16-inch diameter rivets use 1/2-inch bolts). This requires line drilling of the holes to the same diameter as the new bolt (i.e., either 0.437 diameter or 0.500 diameter).
Frame Straightening
Misalignment of frame can be corrected by straightening the out-of-line parts or by replacing the crossmembers, braces, or brackets if they are badly damaged.
WARNING: DO NOT STRAIGHTEN FRONT FRAME RAIL CONVOLUTES.
Straightening should be attempted on frames that fail to meet specifications of the diagonal checking method or where damage is visually apparent.
However, to prevent internal stresses in the metal, frame straightening should be limited to parts that are not severely bent. If heat is needed to straighten a frame member, keep the temperature below 649�C (1200�F) (a dull red glow). Excessive heat may weaken the metal in the frame members and cause permanent damage.
Frame Reinforcing
After a bent frame member has been straightened, inspect the member closely for cracks. If any cracks show, the frame member should be reinforced or replaced.
Reinforcements should be made from angle or flat stock of the same material and thickness as the frame member being reinforced, and should extend a minimum of 152.40mm (6 inches) to either side of the crack. Ideally, the reinforcement should be cut from the corresponding area of a similar frame.
Frame Member Replacement
If a damaged frame member is to be replaced, new bolts, Property Class 9.8 metric (Grade 8 ) fasteners and rivets required for replacement of parts should be of the same specifications as the original bolts or rivets. In cases where it is necessary to substitute a bolt for a rivet, use the next larger size bolt.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/to ... build.html
https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/ ... efault.asp
- johncharlesb
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:59 pm
- Bronco Info: 1962 f100, 1995 Bronco
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
I see how the differences would prohibit an easy 50TTB swap especially with the front frame rails being larger, but he may be okay in getting an older crossmember in his rig with his concern being inside frame dimensions.ChaseTruck754 wrote:The 70's 2wd cross member will be too narrow for the '94 frame.
Here's some measurements I've gotten/take when looking at doing a d50TTB cross member swap into my '74 2wd frame.
77 4wd outside frame width is 33 1/4".
74 supercab 2wd frame width is 33 - 33 1/4" outside to outside. Inside (top of [ to top of ]) is 28 1/2". Frame is 6" tall at cross member.
86(?) Bronco outside frame width 37 1/4".
Tom truck (82 F-250 4wd) outside of frame rail to outside of frame rail at the i-beam cross member = 35" outside to outside at the rear pivot point on the engine cross member.
Ford updated to 37 1/2" rear width frames in 1973 to get the fuel tank out of the cab. He will be looking for a 1973-79 4wd f100/f150 crossmember that should be the right width, but will need mounts. That section of the old truck is channel and that section of the new truck is mostly boxed so the crossmember will likely be too wide and will need to be cut down.
The 1980-96 frames were wide at the very front, narrow at the crossmember, and wide again at the rear. 1973-1979 frames are narrow at the front and wide at the rear. 1965-1972 frames, F250 Highboys, and oddball stuff up to 1977.5 are narrow at the front and narrow at the rear.
1983 Bronco: http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/428456_1
1976 F100 4x4: http://www.fordification.net/tech/image ... 4x4swb.jpg
1976 f250 4x4 with old 1965-72 frame spacing:
http://www.fordification.net/tech/image ... lwb_01.jpg
1972 4x4:
http://www.fordification.com/tech/image ... _frame.jpg
The 1977 is a Highboy f250 4x4 with a 34 inch frame. In 1977.5 they updated to the Lowboy with a wider frame. The 74 Supercab has a special rigid frame built in Kansas City (I don't know if it is 34 or 38 width rear spacing). Ford always updates the bigger and thicker frames last. They did the same thing with the 1965 drop frame update. F250 4x4 and f350 frames were the older style straighter frame until 1967 while the f100 updated in 1965.
I don't remember much about the '80s up F250s. It has been too long...
- SteveG
- Admin
- Posts: 6112
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:25 am
- Bronco Info: Wilson: 96, Stretched 17.5", coil-overs / Bypasses, 4-link, a fridge and all the amenities :)
- Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
Guys, why don't we take the tech conversations to the tech section. Otherwise, it'll just get buried here in intros....
Sho nuff,
SteveG
SteveG
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
I don't have a part #. I can't seem to find a part number for the f-150 sleeves.Silverslk wrote:I get pretty good pricing at the dealer. Get me a part number and I'll see what I can get it for.
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
I don't know what doing wrong. I tried starting a new topic in general tech section and couldn'tSteveG wrote:Guys, why don't we take the tech conversations to the tech section. Otherwise, it'll just get buried here in intros....
- SteveG
- Admin
- Posts: 6112
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:25 am
- Bronco Info: Wilson: 96, Stretched 17.5", coil-overs / Bypasses, 4-link, a fridge and all the amenities :)
- Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
Weird. What does it say when you try to post?blueoval8493 wrote:I don't know what doing wrong. I tried starting a new topic in general tech section and couldn'tSteveG wrote:Guys, why don't we take the tech conversations to the tech section. Otherwise, it'll just get buried here in intros....
Sho nuff,
SteveG
SteveG
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
Everytime I try to post it clears my text and brings me back to the login page after I just get done logging in. Says I must login before I post. This is try #6 to respond to you.
- ChaseTruck754
- Spy/Ninja
- Posts: 9194
- Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:46 am
- Bronco Info: Don't have one - just old Ford trucks
- Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
Are you using FireFox, Ie or what? I seem to remember a similar problem when I very 1st signed up but it's been so long I don't remember exactly what the issue was. I do know I've had no issues since I started using FireFox for this site.
As for this:
If he just wants to keep the solid axle and add a cross member I'd say make one. Trying to graft something in from another truck will be more work than just building what you want from scratch most times.
As for this:
I was under the impression he was going to try & go back to the d44. I wasn't really understanding why he would try & use a 70's crossmember for this but my measurements were to explain this would be difficult.johncharlesb wrote:I see how the differences would prohibit an easy 50TTB swap especially with the front frame rails being larger, but he may be okay in getting an older crossmember in his rig with his concern being inside frame dimensions....snip
If he just wants to keep the solid axle and add a cross member I'd say make one. Trying to graft something in from another truck will be more work than just building what you want from scratch most times.
Owner of only dead and forgotten projects
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
I'm using IE not too good with computers don't know what's up. I didn't cut my original crossmember that the ttb bolts to. The only reason I would change it out is to get more bump travel outta the straight axle. I may just go back to ttb. Still trying to decide what to do. got a miilion other things going on right now. Mass air conversion, new core support, taking body lift out. Probly just enjoy it for the few nice months we get in the summer and tear it back apart this winter.
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
finally gonna try to post some picks got her all back together. I know she's kinda tall but I hope to give her more of a go fast stance this winter
- Attachments
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
Thanks, not to bad for the rust belt huh? Wish I could enjoy it all year round like most on the site. Good thing is when it's parked for 6 months outta the year if $'s good have to time to do lots of work.
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- Posts: 108
- Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:30 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 f150 bronco wannabe
- Location: nova scotia canada help me !!!!
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
I enjoy my junk year round, i just throw the truck away every few years. I hate red , but that truck is cleean !blueoval8493 wrote:Thanks, not to bad for the rust belt huh? Wish I could enjoy it all year round like most on the site. Good thing is when it's parked for 6 months outta the year if $'s good have to time to do lots of work.
Sorry man, I just had to do that, , what are the rearsprings?
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- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:52 pm
- Bronco Info: 1994 F-150 super cab with 347.
Re: Wish I found GFB before FSB
That's the exact color my last truck was. I'll see if I can did up some pics. Actually have some of that paint and thinking that I might do a color change when everything else is done. Rear springs are super stiff and just smthing that came in it. Want to switch to deavers. I went way softer in the front when I did the sas and need to soften up the rear. Gotta get some decent shocks, make bumps and strap it. It won't be strictly go fast but an all around rig I hope. Want to still be able to pull dump trailer and small car trailer.