Gear vendors as "carrier bearing"??

[ChaseTruck754]

Was posting about this in my "pair of '74's" thread and figured this might be a topic all on it's own so here we go...

I have a culhane race c6 (not the trans in the pic) and I bought the gearvendors to go in the crew, but since I went manual trans on that - it's going in this.
I am trying to decide how to mount the gear vendors... Right now my c6 has the fixed tail shaft (3rd pic) because it is shorter/stronger. I'm getting mixed opinions on how to mount it though.

My one though is: keep my fixed tail shaft on the race c6 and use the gear vendors like a carrier bearing or divorced T-case by using a short drive shaft (maybe even a double cardigan joint?) between the tranny and GV. I would have to buy a fixed yoke front end for the GV, but they do make/have them.

The other though is: since the GV already is set up for a 2wd c6 tranny I'd just use the tailshaft and housing off one of the other c6's I have here (one in pic next to GV and other is in the supercab now) to put it on the race c6.

I'm not really a fan of the LONG tail shaft/housing like these c6's have - but it may be better than more U-joints in the system???

Ok - time for some data/info.
Motor (not that it matters - but 351w), trans and GV will all be getting poly bushing type mounts.
Right now from the back of the slip shaft on the tranny to the middle of the carrier bearing on the supercab is 29 1/4"
from the middle of the carrier bearing to the center of the U joint at the pinion is then +/-50" - making the rar drive shaft like 48-50"

If I bolted the GV to the back of the c6 using the long tail shaft the rear drive shaft would go to about 61"

If I went the other route I'm not positive on how long the "short" driveshaft would be or how long the rear one would be seeing as I don't know the dims of the fixed yoke front joint for the GV.


Pics below:
1st = what's in truck now. Didn't come with a rear shaft - so this shows back of trans (long tail housing) to carrier bearing.
2nd = 31" overall length of GV setup with long c6 front housing.
3rd = GV set next to a spare trans. This trans has the stock, long tail shaft and housing.
4th = Culhane built c6 I plan to use. Crappy pic since it's up on my pallet rack - but the fixed yoke tail shaft and housing are like 8" shorter than the "long" shaft/housing on the other trans.


That's enough of my rambling - speak your minds people!

[Polarcub]

My thoughts are that you will end up shorter if you mount it as one unit instead of divorced. I also feel it gives you better reliability in he event you are beating on the vehicle. I dont have any firsthand experience but more than once I have thought about this setup. either way your going to lose length on the driveshaft but I feel that you would lose less by keeping it together. Please keep us posted on the install I am curious to see how this goes for you.

[ChaseTruck754]

Thanks for the input.

I don't mind loosing overall length on the driveshaft - especially if it means I can loose the carrier bearing.

From what I have been hearing - the longer the rear shaft the better. To a point obviously, but if I mount the GV directly to the tranny my rear portion of the shaft will be longer than it currently is.


My other concern is the fact that I will eventually be throwing my 64" deavers on this thing. I need to somehow now figure out about what travel I will have with that setup so I can make the driveshaft only once. Hopefully...

I have been thinking about just putting the 64's on the thing now but that just adds more time/work before I get this thing running, and my goal was to get it running ASAP so I can drive it and get my focus back to getting the crew running.

[johncharlesb]

I would run it together and ditch the carrier bearing. Carrier bearings always seam troublesome. 61 inches is a long drive shaft, but not excessive. You could add a cv up front and take a couple of inches out too. My 79 f150 had a pretty long one piece driveshaft with a cv (400, 35s, no issues). Can you just have the slip yoke installed for the deavers now? Are you reworking your existing driveshaft or building new?

How much travel are you hoping for with those 64" deavers?

John

[Polarcub]

Thanks for the input.

I don't mind loosing overall length on the driveshaft - especially if it means I can loose the carrier bearing.

From what I have been hearing - the longer the rear shaft the better. To a point obviously, but if I mount the GV directly to the tranny my rear portion of the shaft will be longer than it currently is.


My other concern is the fact that I will eventually be throwing my 64" deavers on this thing. I need to somehow now figure out about what travel I will have with that setup so I can make the driveshaft only once. Hopefully...

I have been thinking about just putting the 64's on the thing now but that just adds more time/work before I get this thing running, and my goal was to get it running ASAP so I can drive it and get my focus back to getting the crew running.

Is this going in the bronco? I am not awake yet today haha... With the deavers in the bronco you will be looking at 16-17" useable rear travel. You should be fine on the drivehaft if you use the stock (or close) slip joint length. I have the J40s on mine and am strapped right about 16" on travel in the rear. I am still running the stock shorty drive shaft. Looking forward to seeing this go in. Like I said I have long thought this is a great option when running the C-6 to get the overdrive factor for street use.

[ChaseTruck754]

I would run it together and ditch the carrier bearing. Carrier bearings always seam troublesome. 61 inches is a long drive shaft, but not excessive. You could add a cv up front and take a couple of inches out too. My 79 f150 had a pretty long one piece driveshaft with a cv (400, 35s, no issues). Can you just have the slip yoke installed for the deavers now? Are you reworking your existing driveshaft or building new?

How much travel are you hoping for with those 64" deavers?

John

The plan is to ditch the carrier bearing no matter what - as I agree they are troublesome. I was just trying to decide which way to connect the tranny to the GV would be better/stronger.

There is no rear portion of the driveshaft in the truck now. Never came with one when I got it. Since I have parts for these trucks coming out of my ears I was going to look and see if any of the driveshafts I have may work, but I would be it's going to be a custom setup from the get go.

My though was to have the shaft custom made now and have it be a 2 piece style with an extra long slip so as to hopefully work with the deavers when I got to them.

Is this going in the bronco? I am not awake yet today haha... With the deavers in the bronco you will be looking at 16-17" useable rear travel. You should be fine on the drivehaft if you use the stock (or close) slip joint length. I have the J40s on mine and am strapped right about 16" on travel in the rear. I am still running the stock shorty drive shaft. Looking forward to seeing this go in. Like I said I have long thought this is a great option when running the C-6 to get the overdrive factor for street use.

No broncos for me - I only cut them up

This setup will be in my '74 supercab F-100 (pics below in case you haven't seen my thread in "non broncos".

I hope to get about 16" - 18" or so travel out of the deavers. If I get more it will be a pleasant surprise.

[Polarcub]

Okay, thought so was just confused. You should have no problem getting 17-18 with the deavers and shackles. I think that the solid mating is the way to go for the GV unit. I will have to keep tabs on your thread.

[johncharlesb]

I would go with bolting the overdrive unit directly to the trans.

One, it will be easier.
Two, with a divorced unit the engine will flex and the overdrive won't requiring a slip joint in the first and second driveshaft.
C, the mount will for the overdrive will have to be hella strong (see One).
Five, you should be able to run a single drive shaft. Your drivehaft will need a larger diameter to accomodate added length. You are at the limits of length depending on the driveshaft speed. This would be my greatest concern.

This link has a Critical Speed Calculator and superb tech from dana:
http://www2.dana.com/expertforms/demenu.aspx

If you need any divorced crossmember pics I can get some from the divorced case on my f100. I will get a measurement of the e150 drive shaft length and diameter later and post it. It is a long one piece.

20" on 64" Deavers is my guess.

[ChaseTruck754]

Thanks for the info and link.

No need for the divorced T-case pics. I can go look under the crew cab for that.

The E-150 shaft size/length might be nice though.

I have quite a few (like 5) driveshafts here from different fords of this era and then one from the dodge/cummins that was the old motor donor for the crew so I have a bit I can measure and mess with.

As for the GV flexing - I don't trust a tail housing this long so if I do solid mount it to the tranny (looks like I am going to) I will also make a bushinged hanger mount for this thing.

[johncharlesb]

The e150 standard wheelbase shaft is 65" and 3.5 diameter roughly.

[johncharlesb]

It had a cv on the front of it taking up four inches or so not included in the shaft length. It is probably 69" from flange to flange.

[ChaseTruck754]

Good to know - thanks.

I was trying to remember what shaft length I have been told was "too long" a while back. I want to say the cutoff was 65-68" but I can't remember exactly as it's been too many years.

Looks like it's about time to call a tranny shop (to swap tail shafts/housings) and then the driveline shop.