"Blanc-Oh!", my distraction

[ChaseTruck754]

There are also conversion knuckles or snouts out there to use the d50 hubs and outer axles on the d44 beams. An old member who doesn't post much any more was making them. They are a machined piece. I can text him and see if he is making them any more or not. May be more than the budget calls for though.

[ntsqd]

I've been driving it to work every day and am now about halfway thru the 500 mile break-in on the second new R&P. I want to be sure that I have it broke-in and the lube changed before the PCI 300. If the MW caps have fixed this axle then my only complaint is the semi-floating C-Clip axles. I can live with those, for a while anyway. In the mean time I'm going to be looking for a D60 rear axle.

A machined or fabricated knuckle is definitely out of this truck's budget, but if I can modify these knuckles to accept the D50 or D60 spindles, or make/buy an adapter that does that and has the beginnings of a caliper mount built into it I'm interested in looking into that.

[ntsqd]

Well, the rear axle survived towing an Impreza Wagon on a U-Haul trailer to Carson City. Plan was to use the CTD, it's obviously better suited to the job, but it's brake lights failed as we were leaving already behind schedule. As in worked at the U-Haul dealer, didn't work when I got home. LAPS was closed by then, so.... press the FSB into service. Worked well enough, but I'm pretty sure that fuel economy going up Sherwin Grade & Conway Summit were in the low single digits. I was all set to start looking for a Dana 60 rear housing to build into an RDB 5X5.5 ff 4.56 rear axle when the below happened.

A while back a friend up near the Delta with one of the premier examples of an Early Bronco had started down the path of building a 408 for it. He'd acquired a roller cam block and was sorting out what internals he wanted when he decided to just buy a whole engine. He gave me the block. So, now I get to build a 408 for the Blanc-Oh. The block is at Valley Head Service as of last Saturday. Goal is more power, but that will pass emissions. We'll see if that happens. If it doesn't I can always put the engine in the Bronc-up.

[ntsqd]

Looking for input" stumbled onto a 4.56 geared D60 from an E-350 diesel van with the tone ring! Guy says that it is 59" WMS to WMS. I've yet to measure the 8.8, so no idea if this is the right width or not. I know that earlier vans had the diff offset to the PS by a large distance. From the pics it does not look like this is true for this axle, but none of the pics are truly parallel/perpendicular to the housing, so hard to say for sure. I'm guessing that the spring pads will need to be moved and I know that the damper brackets are wrong. Worth pursuing?

[ChaseTruck754]

I'd definitely spend a little time at least looking at the thing! I haven't looked for 5 lug hubs in a long time but don't remember them for the 60. Then again that was probably 10 years ago now so something has probably come up. Or you can still look at 8 lug for the front.

[ntsqd]

Solid Axle makes 5x5.5 wheel hubs for a 14bff and it is my understanding that with a different seal or bearing(s) or maybe both that they will fit and work on a D60 ff spindle. I recall reading that info somewhere easily found a number of years ago, but I've not been able to confirm it now. Looks like we never really resolved this in this thread. I've reached out to SA Ind asking specifically if their hubs will fit this axle. Waiting on a response.

The price on the axle is good enough that I'm tempted to just grab it and then work out how and if it will work. If it just weren't a ~2 hr drive one way I'd go get it on a weeknight. Bigger front brakes is a definite goal, just maybe not now while I've got these other projects also going on too.

[ntsqd]

Solid Axle Ind. wasn't much help. Their solution is to cut off the D60 spindles and install their 14bff spindles (which they say is similar to the D70 spindle for what that's worth).

It could use better brakes so perhaps the better option is to work out an 8 lug front conversion. Ideally one that includes the tone rings for the ABS. I've reviewed the posts in this thread and done some research in addition, this looks very feasible w/o the ABS bits. I have done the 6 lug to 8 lug conversion of a GM 10 bolt front axle. It looks like I'd need the same set of parts to convert the TTB to 8 lug. Just don't know if there is room etc. for the tone rings and their sensors.

[ChaseTruck754]

For what it's worth I thought a buddy swapped d60 and 70 hubs back and forth. I haven't personally verified if it's a straight swap though

[ntsqd]

Leaning heavily in the direction of converting the front to 8 lug. Sigh, time for new wheels and tires, and these tires only have about 10k on them. Oh joy, just realized that I will need to modify the spare carrier as well. Looks like putting D50 TTB outer stuff on a D44 TTB is a hell of a lot of work. Might be easier to machine the GM wheel hubs for the tone rings. Rough guesstimate is that the GM 8 lug hubs are .165"-.200" larger where the tone rings fit on the wheel hubs. Hopefully I can machine the tone rings without distorting them.

[ntsqd]

A friend found a High Pinion '78-'79 Bronco/F-150 (radius arm wedges, cast on trac-bar mount) D44 with GM flat-top knuckles & 8 lug outer hardware along with a '76 F-250 or F-350 rear D60 FS on FB. Price was decent even w/o any axle shafts or diffs in them and in being Hugger Orange of all colors. Bummer that the front outer shafts aren't there, but overall not a big deal. When I got them home I was finally able to pop the covers off and neither had bearing caps! Who does that? Idiots. PO is offering a 50% rebate if the nephew can't find the caps. I'm hoping that when they find them that the also find the axle shafts. Figured to harvest the 8 lug parts that I need and then sell off the housing for whatever I can get for it and the flat-top knuckles. Which will hopefully be more than the nothing it's worth w/o the caps.

Anyway, from my research it appears that D60's can have the same problem with stretching the bearing caps that my 8.8 had. M-W makes steel caps for those, too. An expensive, probably overkill for me option that requires machining if the original caps aren't found.

Been undecided on 30 spline or 35 spline. If it were a simple bolt-in there would be no question, but it isn't. Have to machine the spindle ID's significantly. I know that it has been done a lot, but I'm not comfortable with it. When I started really comparing a D60 to a 9" and found that a 9"'s 31 spline axles are only .040" larger OD than the D60's 30 spline axles. For my use I just don't see enough advantage to weaken the spindles in order to run the mostly unnecessary larger shaft. I'm not a throttle-jockey, hurting 30 spline axles with 35's, no doubler, and an emissions legal engine doesn't seem very likely.

Being a '96 I have 4WABS to contend with. I'm not inclined to discard it until it gives trouble or won't work. That means that I need to figure out how to install the tone rings on the 8 lug front hubs. I'm likely going to have to destroy the LH Superwinch locking hub to get it off. (Found a new set on ebay!) One of the retaining screw's drive socket is stripped badly. That stymied my first exploration attempt, other than general pictures on the net I've no idea what the senor, knuckle, and tone ring even look like. I've yet to find a picture of, or a source for the front tone rings. The 8 lug spindles do bolt to my spare set of six bolt knuckles, but it looks like I'll need to drill a new retaining hole pattern in the caliper brackets to make the calipers align with the clearance shape in the spindles.

If I can make them fit, rear brakes will be Exploder RDB's unless I find a complete set of Expedition RDB's in the JY. Don't yet know what the differences are, but it stands to reason that they're slightly bigger than the Exploder parts and still have the drum p-brake.

Gear ratio will be 4.56 I'm leaning heavily toward using Dana gears. There isn't enough price difference to make the others worth considering.

What diff to put in it has been something that I've gone around and around on. Currently have a TruTrac and I like it a whole lot more than I thot I might, and I was pretty sure that I would like it. Still, the budget is there for an ARB or an OX and OBA is planned for the truck. argh.

Need to find or make some test-fit bearings and a 4.56-down diff case so that I can figure out where I need to put the sensor hole for the tone ring.

Pics from the PO's ad:

[ntsqd]

Borrowed a 4.56-down open diff case and some new diff bearings (on the condition that I return the bearings modified to be "set-up" bearings) to mock up the rear tone ring and sensor placement.

After cleaning off the grime the spindles are a lot thicker walled than they looked. I don't see a problem with going 35 spline and the shop owner who loaned me the diff & bearings is encouraging me to do so. Researched boring the spindles, boy are there a lot of scary, janky methods posted out there! The best method looks to be the expensive tool that Yukon sells and at least some used to rent. It uses a rare and expensive 1.5625" shell mill. Those really are not designed to be used that way. Most of the places that rent the tool don't want the shell mill back. Hence the rental isn't inexpensive either. There's a better way, and as that shop owner reminded me, no project is worth doing if it doesn't require making a special tool. I said that in response to his ribbing me about always making special tools, but now its bitten me in the butt.



The cutter is a 1-9/16" Hougen annular cutter. The shaft is an 18" long piece of linear bearing shafting.Oillite-bronze bushings, D60 spindle nuts and some various bits of a steel make up the tool. Needs to have 7.5" of stroke minimum.

[ChaseTruck754]

Now this is getting entertaining!

[ntsqd]

My biggest concern right now is the front tone rings & sensors. Those sensors are huge considering the available area they need to go in.

The nephew couldn't or wouldn't find the bearing caps, so I got the rebate. And promptly spent it on the Mark Williams bearing caps. So no outer shafts either.

Until the inbound parts get here I'm nearly stalled. Ordering the steel bits for the tool from McMaster, hopefully tonight. Not the least spendy, but that last time I asked my local steel vendor for pieces this small they ordered them from McMaster.

[ChaseTruck754]

While McMaster ain't cheap - at least they're quick. Down here we're nearly same day delivery from them. Plus if the vendor is going to order from them anyway you might as well save the drive and the middle man markup.

[ntsqd]

OX locker on order for the rear, being told 2-4 weeks out. I've really enjoyed the current TruTrac and for 80%+ of the time it would be ideal, but I know that occasionally I'm going to need more than that. If there was a selectable that was a "TruTrac" when not locked up I'd have ordered that for sure. I don't really think the "Ected" is the same thing at all.

Boring tool is progressing and pics are being taken. Will post when I have it finished.

[ntsqd]

I'm two tapped holes in case hardened steel away from having the spindle boring tool functional. Stuck in limbo while the carbide tap drill winds it's way here. If I can't make the tap cut threads at the top I'll plunge a carbide end-mill down thru the case hardening. Not a lot of wall thickness there so I hope to not have to do that. I've been taking some pics along the way, I'll post them once that whole process is completed.

Dana 4.56 R&P & master bearing kit are inbound. Still waiting to hear on the OX locker.

Looks like the PO put new Koyo bearings in the rear wheel hubs, with some fairly tacky bearing grease, and then never used them. They're full of junk now from being exposed (no axle shafts in place for who knows how long), but a solvent wash and re-greasing will put them to right.

Next big purchase is brakes. I've flirted with Expedition RDB's, but for ease of acquisition I think that I'll go with Explorer RDB's. Looks like a thin spacer that has both a diametrical function and a small thickness function will locate the caliper mount. To locate & mount the rotor it is looking like a thicker spacer is going to be needed. Plan is to locate it on the drum's register diameter and retain it with some longer than stock 14bff 9/16" studs thru it and then the wheel hub's flange. It will then have a register diameter on it for the rotor and be tapped in the rotor's stock wheel BC for 5 bolts yet TBD. I don't think that the rotor's center hole will be large enough for much of anything. Which sucks as I don't like having to modify wear parts just to get them to fit, but oh well.....

Unless someone knows the details of the Exploder caliper plumbing once the calipers get here I'll be ordering the bits to make up SS -3 brake lines from Orme Bros. A shorty at each caliper and a long one from the frame to the axle in the stock location. Thinking to use Cu-Ni tubing for the hard lines. Never worked with it before, so that will be educational.

Need to see if Solo Mtrsprts will sell me just their lower damper mounts.

[ntsqd]

Apparently American Racing Wheels, KMC wheels, Black Rhino Wheels and who knows who all else have been purchased by some entity that calls themselves "wheelpros". All dimensional data for their wheels is now privileged information. We feeble-minded customers can't be trusted to figure out what wheels to buy and use. You can't find out which wheels have what back-spacing(s) or bolt pattern(s) without having your hand held by a dealer, who apparently are entrusted with this sacred knowledge, or a CS person at wheelpros. Who, in the case of the latter, are adamant that my Bronco doesn't have 8 lugs.

[ChaseTruck754]

Apparently American Racing Wheels, KMC wheels, Black Rhino Wheels and who knows who all else have been purchased by some entity that calls themselves "wheelpros". All dimensional data for their wheels is now privileged information. We feeble-minded customers can't be trusted to figure out what wheels to buy and use. You can't find out which wheels have what back-spacing(s) or bolt pattern(s) without having your hand held by a dealer, who apparently are entrusted with this sacred knowledge, or a CS person at wheelpros. Who, in the case of the latter, are adamant that my Bronco doesn't have 8 lugs.

Oh lord! Big brother at it's best. This is as bad as when they started telling me that they physically couldn't put a 35x12.5r15 on the 7.5" wide factory alcoas Pure nonsense driven by an overly litigious society I'm sure, but we get to suffer for it.

It's also like when the parts counter guys at the dealer used to ask what vehicle, and then what motor to try & find the part. Then they'd look at me funny and tell me the Ranger never came with the supercharged 3.8L, only the T-bird. No chit - I put it there. "That's why I tried to avoid your question of what vehicle and what motor and just tell you what part I need"....

[ntsqd]

It gets worse, their CS person just told me that they don't sell direct (I never even hinted at that) and that she couldn't help me any further. That I would need to seek out a local seller of their wheels. I asked her in these days of mass communications if she understood the sales liability that their idiotic sales model just created. I have a better idea, I'll buy wheels (indirectly or not) from a mfg who is actually interested in their customers and not just their customer's credit card.

These are way out of budget, but...... as best as I can tell they are not a "wheelpros" brand:
https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/H ... eadywheels
Same price as direct and I prefer to give Jim my business.

[ntsqd]

Just to keep some interest up:



It is slow going. Partly because they deep "holes" (~7" deep), and partly because the Hougen cutter works best at about 100 rpm. To do that I need to load up that drill motor to slow it down from it's no-load speed of 425, which makes it get hot pretty fast. So drill for ~10 mins and then let the drill cool off. Repeat ad nauseum. I'll guess that actual drilling time is about 1 hour.