Coil over VS Custom Buckets

Frontrunner54 · Post by **Frontrunner54** » Wed May 09, 2012 7:33 pm

...are those 3.0s? and the pics are at full droop yeah?

CITYRAT · Post by **CITYRAT** » Wed May 09, 2012 9:33 pm

Whatever works for me to..I was lucky enough to pick mine up close to how it sits now. The shocks r 2.5s by 14" ... Its not even close to full droop. Just have it strapped for the street.

Frontrunner54 · Post by **Frontrunner54** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:31 pm

Thats cool... Do you run a longer strap when you take it out to the desert?

economig · Post by **economig** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:39 pm

CITYRAT wrote:You mentioned mounting points as one of these key points. What are the other factors?.. Just want to know what to look for and compare to my truck and others..

Another big part of what he meant was mounting angles for shocks, not just how the shock body/shaft slants before compression or at bump, but how the ends pivot, twist, bind, etc. Through a cycle. You will constantly see people with beams mounting the ends as if the arch path of the beam is like a wing, flapping up and down in a straight line, as if the beam only rotated on the axis of the beam pivot... Like if you only had to worry about the path of the lower control arm in an A-Arm setup, it would be pretty easy.

But beams still have X and Y.

Beams, especially with extended radius arms and heims, would actually have an arch path that extends in a path pointing towards the outside/front corners. So it's important that the ends of the shocks are pointed diagonally towards those corners, to limit binding and necessity to rely on misalignment spacers through the travel.

Not sure if the way i typed this *on my iPhone helps without a picture

And to agree with other posters, i pretty much "Know" the right way to do it and i cut corners too because i have a ton of kids that i love and we wanna go drive in the dez not look at old dusty piles in the garage. Life's short, sometimes you gotta run what you brung! *unless you paid tons or feel cheated and it's not safe, etc. For some people, trial and error is part of the journey. My thing has always been the same: I get sick of not being able to use something so i justify slapping the rest together based on the fact that i saved a lot doing it myself?? Poor logic sometimes wins funnest weekend award

(end novel) sorry

Post by **SteveG** » Thu May 10, 2012 3:05 pm

You're an animal for posting all that on your phone. I max out at a couple sentences on mine!

While I agree that optimum mounting points for a coil-over are ideal, I don't think it's absolutely necessary for TTB truck. Granted, a crappy install and crappy geometry can ruin a truck. But, the TTB has a lot of limiting factors that will come into play before having your mounting points dead on. The Spirit coil-over towers have tens of thousands of hard off-road miles on them and they're pretty much straight up and down and place the lower c/o mount in the same place the stock coil is mounted. The geometry is not "ideal" but it sure gets the job done... and well.

Another thing to think about is that after adding extended radius arms, the left and right front corners of these trucks are not symmetrical. Then, with stock steering, the tie rods are all different lengths. Yes, you can add cross-over steering but even if every pivot is perfectly placed and the front end has zero bump steer, in the real world the tie rods will deflect once the truck is at speed and hitting the big stuff.

The point? It's amazing these front ends go down the road straight in any form! The TTB is brute. A broad sword and not a scalpel. That's why I love it!

economig · Post by **economig** » Thu May 10, 2012 5:28 pm

SteveG wrote:The point? It's amazing these front ends go down the road straight in any form! The TTB is brute. A broad sword and not a scalpel. That's why I love it!

Ha ha AGREED! when it all comes down to it, truer words have never been spoken about TTB! lol

Self admittedly, i guess we'll always find things to knit pick or scrutinize, in an effort to define whether something's "Better" or "Worse" than something else. But the bottom line is Steve is totally right. i've seen a ton of stuff that's kind of supposed to "Suck" but it does better and/or lasts longer than any of the "Good" stuff.

Kudos, sir

Threat Motorsports · Post by **Threat Motorsports** » Fri May 11, 2012 8:45 am

Mounting the coilovers so they cycle the path of how the suspension cycles with a good motion ratio, proper spring rate, and good valving actually will make a difference compared to something with just guessed shock mount locations. If it wasn't true I wouldn't bother wasting the extra time to set up coilovers that way, and it would be alot easier too do. Either way though like said it will still work but it can work better. Steve that's very true about tie-rod deflection! Thats why we use the largest thickest 4130 machined and threaded tie-rods in the business

AussieRod · Post by **AussieRod** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:47 pm

Whether you use coil-overs or coils and buckets, it IS important to cycle the suspension as you assemble it, to make sure there is no bind, premature contact or mis-alignment. Clamp on the radius arm mounts, and cycle, cycle and cycle again until the beam runs a smooth path from bump to full droop. Use a tape measure to check wheelbase constantly and if you can get it reasonably square and cycling smoothly, making sure if you use coil-overs the ends run inline and dont bind on their mounts, or if using coils, that the bucket and beam mount at least line up, the suspension will work just fine. Like SteveG said, its funny how bad a TTB can be and still work great, and it is really hard to mess one up, but some people seem to out-redneck-engineer themselves and do just that.

economig · Post by **economig** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:01 pm

^^^Well said mate^^^

Frontrunner54 · Post by **Frontrunner54** » Mon May 21, 2012 1:20 pm

Did you say yeah sure, or yes sir?

Yeah that pretty much sums it up... I guess it all depends on your budget, and resources. I know if I had the funds and the time, I would for sure go coilover...
I've been reading Yikes' build, and those 4.0s are awesome.

For comparisons sake, its like having a 5100 vs a bypass... the 5100s will do you just fine, but the bypass' gives you that tuneability.

With buckets your stuck with the ride height, of whatever coil you bought... or you have build new buckets to make them work. Which is where all the time and effort, and is it worth it thoughts come into play...

Where a coilover may have welded mounts top and bottom, but you can select your spring rate, and lengths from a much larger market, and adjust your ride quality and ride height with dual or tripple rate tenders, or a few turns on your upper retainer.

economig · Post by **economig** » Mon May 21, 2012 3:13 pm

Frontrunner54 wrote:Did you say yeah sure, or yes sir?

Who is this to?

scraptor · Post by **scraptor** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:02 pm

Frontrunner54 wrote:Thats cool... Do you run a longer strap when you take it out to the desert?

Could you just do a multi hole upper strap mount, that was my plan, that way i can play with it, and adjust for stretch, plus i like speed holes.

Frontrunner54 · Post by **Frontrunner54** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:56 pm

economig wrote:
Frontrunner54 wrote:Did you say yeah sure, or yes sir?
Who is this to?

No one really... Ive just been watching supertroopers too much.

Frontrunner54 · Post by **Frontrunner54** » Mon May 21, 2012 9:05 pm

scraptor wrote:
Frontrunner54 wrote:Thats cool... Do you run a longer strap when you take it out to the desert?

Could you just do a multi hole upper strap mount, that was my plan, that way i can play with it, and adjust for stretch, plus i like speed holes.

Yeah for sure... check out the clevis mounts too... Depending on where you mount your strap, that's probably the easiest way. Its basically like a rod end for your strap.

...but if you just wanted to weld or bolt a plate off the frame, with a few holes spaced 1/2" or so apart, I suppose that would do the trick just as well.

Sorry for rambling.