Bronco Brake upgrade options

[Seattle FSB]

Hey, PaulW.

I'm considering the ABS Power Brake Dual Power Max electric brake booster.

My problem is that I have original 15x10 Alcoa Wheels that I do not care to part with as they are worth more than I paid for them 20 years ago. The limited space in the wheels is full with stock front single piston calipers and upgraded rear single piston Explorer Rear Disc Brakes.

My thought is to substantially increase the hydraulic pressure. I shouldn't eat the brake pads as the system only works as hard as you apply them. I am currently using Power Slot Cryo rotors with Napa Ceramic pads as the Hawk pads created a high amount of corrosive dust on the polished wheels.

ABS states that they will supply me with the firewall adapter and I really like the reservoir which will hold up to 10 brake applications after electrical failure. The Dual Power Max is advertised at 1800 PSI Normal and 3500 PSI Max.

It would be a cool and unique performance upgrade to the Bronco. What do you think or is this system too much for single piston calipers?

[PaulW]

Just got mine home in SF. Testing begins soon.
I am using stock calipers. Don't know what the long term use will find. Its not a pad issue but the higher pressure is a caliper issue. However the Ford Varga calipers are very robust, as are the Explorer calipers (probably also Varga?). My rears are Varga from a special Tarus.
They did not tell me they had an adapter so Glen just made one. 1.5" to accomidate their push rod.
You will need a tee for the cruise pressure switch. And a work around for the float switch from the stock master. Otherwise the ECU will get confused and you will have a brake light and you will defeat all the other brake safety features. If you get their master with a res float switch then it will tell you when the master res is low by using a seperate light. I did not tell them I wanted that feature. I wished it had it now. You probably will still need the oem float switch workaround even with their float switch since Ford has a 3 wire powered float switch.
I think what is going on is they are continuing to upgrade their product for the better.
If you go that way let me know the install and performance details.
They told me 1800psi pump on & 2500psi pump off? My pump is cycling on after 3 brake applications.
Pics later
Paul
PS; I put Ford Varga dual piston calipers on my wifes LJ Jeep. Reason they are much stiffer than the single piston oem ones. Huge improvement along with the EBC pads. Testing by a brake company indicates no flex with the Ford/V caliper and measurable flex at quite low pressure with the oem ones. PW
=============

Hey, PaulW.

I'm considering the ABS Power Brake Dual Power Max electric brake booster.

My problem is that I have original 15x10 Alcoa Wheels that I do not care to part with as they are worth more than I paid for them 20 years ago. The limited space in the wheels is full with stock front single piston calipers and upgraded rear single piston Explorer Rear Disc Brakes.

My thought is to substantially increase the hydraulic pressure. I shouldn't eat the brake pads as the system only works as hard as you apply them. I am currently using Power Slot Cryo rotors with Napa Ceramic pads as the Hawk pads created a high amount of corrosive dust on the polished wheels.

ABS states that they will supply me with the firewall adapter and I really like the reservoir which will hold up to 10 brake applications after electrical failure. The Dual Power Max is advertised at 1800 PSI Normal and 3500 PSI Max.

It would be a cool and unique performance upgrade to the Bronco. What do you think or is this system too much for single piston calipers?

[shockseals.com]

Is anybody using an ebrake when using OEM calipers from different vehicles? If so whats the hot set up?

[RyanDS650X]

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/chev ... index.html

Page 3 for the disc conversion for us 14 bolters.

[toddz69]

Is anybody using an ebrake when using OEM calipers from different vehicles? If so whats the hot set up?

Several options out there:

1. 79-85 Cadillac rear calipers. Very popular in a lot of aftermarket kits over the years. Unfortunately the e-brake design was very poor right out of the box and they take a lot of maintenance to keep working correctly. I've used them on two different occasions and hated them.
2. Ford Explorer discs. Have become the most popular aftermarket rear disc setup in recent years - also sold by many vendors. Uses small drum parking brake inside the hat of the rotor. E-brake works very well (I currently use this setup on my EB). Downside for FSB is the Explorer rotor is a thin, solid rotor that some may find marginal for hard use in a FSB. Wilwood makes a similar setup with a slightly larger, thicker rotor. PaulW had troubles with rocks in the e-brake assy on his and iirc, he also had leaking axle seals problems with it (know of one other person with the same problem). I've never had rocks problems and I think the difference is the Explorer setup uses a very nice dust shield setup whereas the Wilwood setup is more open.
3. Late 80s/early 90s Varga calipers from various Fords. These are the calipers that PaulW uses on his rear axle. They're one of the few hydro-mechanical calipers I know of that work well in terms of e-brake function. I have another EB friend that uses them as well. An added bonus that they can work pretty well with a full-floater if you ever go that route. Fewer options for install kits (I think SSBC still makes a kit for your truck) so more custom work with brackets, etc. might be in order.

There are a few other OEM setups out there but these are the three that come to mind. Calipers and other bits-n-pieces for all three are common in junkyards.

Todd Z.

[shockseals.com]

Is anybody using an ebrake when using OEM calipers from different vehicles? If so whats the hot set up?

Several options out there:

1. 79-85 Cadillac rear calipers. Very popular in a lot of aftermarket kits over the years. Unfortunately the e-brake design was very poor right out of the box and they take a lot of maintenance to keep working correctly. I've used them on two different occasions and hated them.
2. Ford Explorer discs. Have become the most popular aftermarket rear disc setup in recent years - also sold by many vendors. Uses small drum parking brake inside the hat of the rotor. E-brake works very well (I currently use this setup on my EB). Downside for FSB is the Explorer rotor is a thin, solid rotor that some may find marginal for hard use in a FSB. Wilwood makes a similar setup with a slightly larger, thicker rotor. PaulW had troubles with rocks in the e-brake assy on his and iirc, he also had leaking axle seals problems with it (know of one other person with the same problem). I've never had rocks problems and I think the difference is the Explorer setup uses a very nice dust shield setup whereas the Wilwood setup is more open.
3. Late 80s/early 90s Varga calipers from various Fords. These are the calipers that PaulW uses on his rear axle. They're one of the few hydro-mechanical calipers I know of that work well in terms of e-brake function. I have another EB friend that uses them as well. An added bonus that they can work pretty well with a full-floater if you ever go that route. Fewer options for install kits (I think SSBC still makes a kit for your truck) so more custom work with brackets, etc. might be in order.

There are a few other OEM setups out there but these are the three that come to mind. Calipers and other bits-n-pieces for all three are common in junkyards.

Todd Z.

Thanks for the info Todd...I am going full floater. Havent decided if a willwood set up wins over ebrake yet.

[philofab]

X2 on the Cadillac calipers. My Eldorado came with them and they have sucked since '76.

Another option if your running 16" or lager wheels is the F150 rear disc brake setup. It is a larger version of the expo piece. The rotors will need redrilling from the metric size. The wheel bearings will have no problems if you have the correct size spacer made for the thickness of the backing plate. I believe the last set I made where .200?

You could also install a drum parking brake on the d/shaft but will unfortunately shorten it. A disc parking brake could be made without loosing too much ground clearance or d/shaft length. It would need a stout skid plate to live.

[PaulW]

I just got a tip that Toyota used a 4 piston caliper that fits with a 15" wheel - for the front. Supposedly much more stopping power than stock Bronco single piston. I need to look into years, & model and find out if the piston areas are compatable with the rest of what I have. That would be a JY deal and would cost much less than 6 piston the low profile calipers that the racers use.
Paul

[tcm glx]

I just got a tip that Toyota used a 4 piston caliper that fits with a 15" wheel - for the front. Supposedly much more stopping power than stock Bronco single piston. I need to look into years, & model and find out if the piston areas are compatable with the rest of what I have. That would be a JY deal and would cost much less than 6 piston the low profile calipers that the racers use.
Paul

Paul, I believe there are a few toyotas that ran the 4 piston calipers:
4runners, older model Tundra's, and of course their Supra. Would be interesting to see which will clear the 15" wheel.

[ChaseTruck754]

1. 79-85 Cadillac rear calipers. Very popular in a lot of aftermarket kits over the years. Unfortunately the e-brake design was very poor right out of the box and they take a lot of maintenance to keep working correctly. I've used them on two different occasions and hated them.

As others have said - they suck. More in depth proof of why/how here...
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/98686 ... rsion.html

3. Late 80s/early 90s Varga calipers from various Fords. These are the calipers that PaulW uses on his rear axle. They're one of the few hydro-mechanical calipers I know of that work well in terms of e-brake function. I have another EB friend that uses them as well. An added bonus that they can work pretty well with a full-floater if you ever go that route. Fewer options for install kits (I think SSBC still makes a kit for your truck) so more custom work with brackets, etc. might be in order.

There are a few other OEM setups out there but these are the three that come to mind. Calipers and other bits-n-pieces for all three are common in junkyards.

Todd - got a list of cars these come in? I haven't really seen these before and they sound interesting.

I just got a tip that Toyota used a 4 piston caliper that fits with a 15" wheel - for the front. Supposedly much more stopping power than stock Bronco single piston. I need to look into years, & model and find out if the piston areas are compatible with the rest of what I have. That would be a JY deal and would cost much less than 6 piston the low profile calipers that the racers use.
Paul

I've got a pair of the toyota 4 piston calipers from a Tacoma sitting in my shop. My plan was to use them on all 4 corners of the ranger. This is when I was going for over the counter type parts for much of the floater. I was going to use the dodge 1500, 4wd front rotors as they slid right on/over my speedway engineering hubs with the 9/16" studs.
Anyways the toyota calipers seem to be a good setup but they are pretty heavy if you are monitoring unsprung weight. The nice part about them is they are stout and won't flex like the lightweight wilwoods do... One of the issues I saw with the toyota calipers was the fact that they are set up for a pretty narrow rotor. Not a solid rotor, but a very small vented rotor. I was going to machine a spacer to widen them to fit over the dodge rotors (which were thinner than the Ford/Chevy rotors I looked at).

Now I have heard there is a different/cool 4 piston caliper off a tundra out there, but I haven't looked at those yet.

I am still trying to figure out what I will do for calipers on my trucks. I'd like to have the same hubs, rotors, calipers, etc. on all 4 corners to make it so I can carry 1 spare that will fit any corner on either truck. Parking break becomes an issue with this, but I'm thinking I'm going to run a driveline brake on the middle shaft (divorced T case) of the crew cab, and a hydraulic line lock for quick/emergency type use on the supercab.

[PaulW]

Good info on the Toy caipers . Keep it comming

Rears: On my 96 i have the Varga calipers with mechanical park. They are marginal for my heavy Bronco. Glen said they are from a Taurus, but when I compared pad size with the SHO that I pulled at the JY they turned out to be 50% larger than the SHO Taurus I now have in my parts box?? Mystery They required a custom mount. Maybe he got calipers for the thick vented rotors he wanted to use? My suspision they are from Mustang SVT, maybe Lincoln?. I will check the pad size when I get a chance.
The 72 was supposed to have the same Varga calipers , but Glen found a kit from BC Broncos for the standard 9" and used them since the cost was so much less than his custom brackets. Kit came with new Cad calipers.

The grease seal on my 10.25 semi floater with the Wilwood calipers leaked because the Wilwood keeper at the hub was flexing and letting the axle move when subjected to extreme side load from a saved turn (with grippy Baja tires).

Had a leaky hub seal with my present 9"/Tubeworks/Mittler setup caused by insuffient torque on the outboard nut. My problem - not hardware. I need to get the big socket. Anyway I ruined the bearings and had to get replacements from Mittler. Glen showed up in SF with his socket and made the new parts good.
Paul

[toddz69]

Good info on the Toy caipers . Keep it comming

Rears: On my 96 i have the Varga calipers with mechanical park. They are marginal for my heavy Bronco. Glen said they are from a Taurus, but when I compared pad size with the SHO that I pulled at the JY they turned out to be 50% larger than the SHO Taurus I now have in my parts box?? Mystery They required a custom mount. Maybe he got calipers for the thick vented rotors he wanted to use? My suspision they are from Mustang SVT, maybe Lincoln?. I will check the pad size when I get a chance.
The 72 was supposed to have the same Varga calipers , but Glen found a kit from BC Broncos for the standard 9" and used them since the cost was so much less than his custom brackets. Kit came with new Cad calipers.

The grease seal on my 10.25 semi floater with the Wilwood calipers leaked because the Wilwood keeper at the hub was flexing and letting the axle move when subjected to extreme side load from a saved turn (with grippy Baja tires).

Had a leaky hub seal with my present 9"/Tubeworks/Mittler setup caused by insuffient torque on the outboard nut. My problem - not hardware. I need to get the big socket. Anyway I ruined the bearings and had to get replacements from Mittler. Glen showed up in SF with his socket and made the new parts good.
Paul

There are several different Varga calipers out there. The pre-'92 Taurus ones (which I pulled for you, Paul) are for a thicker rotor, probably 0.080-0.100"? in thickness. '92-later calipers were for thinner rotors. Ford went to thinner, solid rotor in the '92-newer cars - probably to save $$. The newer calipers, also used on '94-'04 Mustangs, etc. also have a smaller piston than the earlier ones.

The various Toyota 4 piston calipers are a good, inexpensive option, if they fit your setup. I'm "trying" to keep my 15" wheels and I'm not a big fan of wheel spacers. The Toy calipers I've looked at all seem to have the "close tab" (3.5"?) mounting configuration that pushes them away from the 4WD knuckles, which would require at least 16" or more likely, 17" wheels to work. I think I've also done some measuring and determined I'd need some wheel spacers for rim clearance as well.

I have this unachievable dream: fixed, multi-piston calipers on the front end, cheap, and clear 15" wheels.

Todd Z.

[toddz69]

Todd - got a list of cars these come in? I haven't really seen these before and they sound interesting.

Off the top of my head:

87-88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes
89-91 Taurus SHO and reg. Taurus with rear disc option
89?-91 Lincoln Mark VII
Lincoln Continentals of the same vintage

A few years ago I could go to the yards and find 15-20 cars with these calipers on them but as time has progressed and fewer of these cars are in the pickys, they're a little less plentiful but certainly not rare.

Todd Z.

[ChaseTruck754]

Thanks for the list of cars.

I also seem to have the same, unachievable dream as you.

[philofab]

Toyota 4wd/prerunners up till 2001 or so had 15" wheels. What are the calipers on your DD Steve?

[ChaseTruck754]

Same ones I've got in the shop that I was talking about earlier. I think part of the issue is rotor diameter. It's been a few years since I looked at all this (as I said I was looking at it for my ranger) and I've forgotten much of what I figured out.

I have a list of 5x5.5 lug pattern slide on rotors that I was looking at when I was messing with this. I tried to post it but I can't post a PDF and when converted to jpeg the file size was too bit. I'm emailing SteveG to see if he can add it to this post...

Admin Edit... PDF link below.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... TUEm&hl=en

[philofab]

The largest rotor that could be used with a 15" wheel is most likely 11"'or so.

[ChaseTruck754]

Pretty much. Notice most of the rotors aside from the Toyota ones are approaching 12"

[baja-chris]

The calipers on my 94 Cobra and pretty nice and the rears use a vented rotor and include a hydro-mechanical parking brake that seems quite strong. These Cobra calipers are still sold and available.

On the ttb class 8 truck we fit a 6" CNC 6-piston caliper inside the 15" wheels. We used an aluminum brake hat to mount the rotor. The calipers were shaved down a bit on the belt sander. And then to tuck them in closer we cut down the mounting ears and used double smaller bolts that went into the modified knuckle. Of course we shaved the stock caliber mount from the knuckle and then welded mounting tabs to mate up with the modified CNC caliper. Lots of work but worth it for a full blown race car. Would be easier to just go to 17" wheels and 37" tires but that opens a whole other can of issues.

[BDKW1]

The largest rotor that could be used with a 15" wheel is most likely 11"'or so.

12-1/4" with most calipers and rims. There are of course a few exceptions.......