cutting and turning

[CPT. SPRINGINGTON]

no weight on it. the spring isn't even bolt on in that pic.

I have everything bolted together now minus the brakes and wheels. The driver side is perfect but the passenger spring rubs at full droop and will probably rub at ride height too. we'll see once I get the weight on it.

the camber in that pic is with the alignment caliber set in the middle.

I'm questioning the radius arms... I think they will rub my 33x14.5 swampers that I had got for the sand....

[CPT. SPRINGINGTON]

its all bolted together... but i need a drop pitman arm and im thinking i shouldn't make a homemade one.

although the spring rubs on the passenger side, the shock doesn't. I think it would have cleared if I didn't turn the axle housing so much, o well.

[hobbyturnedobsession]

It shouldnt need a pitman arm if you did a cut n turn.

[Rmc]

He's right it shouldn't need one if done correctly, no offence intended.

[CPT. SPRINGINGTON]

alright, I'll take another look at it again tomorrow. Its that my tie rod ends don't articulate enough.

[Rmc]

Either the beams weren't " turned" rotated far enough or the springs clearly are too tall for the amount u rotated them before u welded them back together. A drop pitman arm will only add steering issues to the beam end geometry issue. F*#% it ill beat a dead horse lol start over, do what we've all tried to tell u, the way we've told u. U shouldn't have to modify anything but the spindles placement to correct camber at ride height.

[Rmc]

I ment the spindles relation to correct camber angle at ride height.

[Agui-E7TE]

It shouldnt need a pitman arm if you did a cut n turn.

You guys are super wrong there... but sort of right too... but mostly wrong.

I have cut and turn beams and I have a Pro Comp drop pitman arm that I was using for my 6-inch Skyjacker kit previously. I have the stock pitman arm and planned to swap to it but when I finished my beam swap, I realized that both my steering links are in perfect alignment with my axleshafts with the drop pitman arm. I think you guys are just able to run the stock pitman arm with no/minimal adverse effects.

I haven't had any steering issues with my Bronco and I was just drifting it through washes at TDS last weekend and it held up great. I've got over 1000 miles on this set up right now and everything is still perfect. That being said, most of those miles were highway but at least 100 of those miles have been dirt miles. I've crawled the Bronco up steep rock faces without any issues or binding and it's also done great through fast sand washes.

[Rmc]

U aren't gonna "feel"the beam drop out bound by the ballpoint, it will just drop to the point of mechanical bind and that's your new full droop position, it will eventually fatigue the ball joint or socket n either get loose or shear, depending on the unsprung weight this process will happen faster. No u also won't feel bump steer unless its excessive but your tire will be wiggling back and forth agian speeding up the process of ball joint failure. Bump steer on the asphalt can make the steering darty feeling with small to mid sized street bumps, this is the tire going slack to the intended angle n regaining the weight of the vehicle faced in a new unplanned direction. Know beams always had bump steer due to tie rod arc radius length being different the the beams radius length. Here's a link that might help explain better.

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazin ... g_tech.htm

[Rmc]

Btw I have a bunch of bump steer on mine and it drives fine on the highway also but I know it's there and why it acts the way it acts. Ill fix it when I have time. I don't wanna get stranded due to ballpoint failure.

[Rmc]

For all who don't know there's a good old fashion term long time associated with beams called the death shake or death wobble. It's due to exactly what I'm referring to bump steer, steering geometry radius length irregularities in comparison to beam radius length. Make it ride right not u gotta drive it constantly let the truck drive u.

[hobbyturnedobsession]

How do you figure augi? If your doing a proper cut n turn for the right springs the steering geometry is thrown off with a drop down bracket

[Agui-E7TE]

If both my tie rod steering links follow my axleshafts dead center on both sides, It's going to work better than if I ran the stock pitman arm and had the steering links up higher with more angle on them which would cause more stress on the steering.

That being said, our project Bronco - 'The Juice' has a drop pitman arm that is slightly lower than mine which keeps his steering links parallel to each other as if it was a solid axle. Believe it or not, we haven't had any issues at all after countless dirt and road miles with it and it drives really well both in the dirt and on the road. Camburg set it up that way and I'm sure they had a good reason to.

It's all just different schools of thought on it so there really is no wrong way to do it, you just get better advantages with one that you might not get with the other. I would think running the stock pitman arm (being so high up) would put a lot more load on the tie rod joints through there arc of travel since they would be closer to binding (if not already binding) at full droop than a drop pitman arm setup.

[Agui-E7TE]

Here's a picture of what my C&T beams look like with my steering links and drop pitman arm. I can't see anything wrong with it and it sure drives fast (faster than some trucks with coilovers ) without bumpsteer being an issue. I've also had no binding whatsoever while fully articulating my Bronco through the notches at TDS enough to rub my tires on my quarters and fenders.

[hobbyturnedobsession]

Have you fully cycled the suspension without springs?

[bajascott]

6 to some,half a dozen to others.....

Just grab some rebar,weld it to the splines and go jump that bitchen.

[Agui-E7TE]

Have you fully cycled the suspension without springs?

Not really but my limiting factor is my shocks right now. The tie rods are at a better angle with the drop pitman arm and I honestly don't see a reason to change it. I've bounced it ass to nose and back a few times already on big whoops (I hate when that happens) and It never actually bottomed out when I did that but maybe it has something to do with my truck bouncing around.

I always assumed that it's ideal to have the steering link be as parallel as it can to the beam pivots as you can get it and I'd imagine going to the stock pitman arm would raise the steering links to a point where the angle would be the greatest when compared to using a drop pitman arm. With swinger steering the links are dead on with the angle of pivot so you practically eliminate bumpsteer by doing so.

That being said, I've seen every set up work off road.. it's just more of a preference thing in my opinion.

[Jbfab]

Here is mine with a tie rod flip. I dont have my cut n turns on yet but cant see it being any different. Works fine while cycling the suspension with little bump steer.

[Rmc]

I'm thinking both your guys beams cycle within the intersection points of steering vs beam radius. If u ever set it up for more travel it will become very apparent, also high steer in combination worsens the issue until tie rod length closer matches beam radius. What u guys should have noticed if u jacked the front up to do full droop is the passenger side tierod binding way sooner than the drivers side cause of its short length( stock set up). if i remember corectly it aslo tows in the passanger tire some.This binding point as well as the driver side ball joint max angle can prevent the beam ever getting to true spring or coil over full droop position.

[Rmc]

Driver sides shorter sry, I knew what I ment anyway.