Coil over VS Custom Buckets

[Polarcub]

Okay boys and Girls I need some advice. The Bronco currently has a set of autofab buckets with single 14" kings and a mount to run a 10" behind the bucket. I have a set of camburg arms as well.

I have been wrestling with wnating to go to C/Os but I ma having a hard time stomaching the cost involved even with good guys pricing and all the help I get. I am really trying to decide it its worth it or just cool .

THe bronco works very well right now, I still need to work the valving a bit up front, and its time for some new coils as well, I feel that there is still something off with my radius arms as well, since I went to the autofab buckets the alignment just never seems quite right. After the buckets went on with the arms at 1/4 turn on the heim (where they were after camburg installed them) the springs were pushed forward. Like the beams were pushed to far forward. So I moved the brackets back and made some adjustments with the heim to get the coil aligned straight again and it doesnt seem right either, I think I would need to relocate the brackets again and probably just weld them into place.
I am considering having some new arms built by BlackMarket along woith a transmission crossmemeber much like the rangers do and selling my camburg arms. Along with that put the hyd bumps in and call it good...The bronco worlks damn good already.
With the work that is going to go into this it wouldnt be astretch to just go with C/Os though (more money) but I am jsut not convinved I will gain all that much in the end that I cant accomplish with some tweaking on what I already have. Thoughts?

[Dezertbronco]

You should sell em to me. That would make it. Cooler.:.

[baja-chris]

If it works good and you already have some money tied up in good parts then it's real hard to justify rework.

But if you are starting from stock, I think doing a 3" coilover with a 2" air bump is the way to go. It's not that much more money since you will still need some expensive shocks with buckets anyway. And the coilover setup makes it easy to get 18" of travel. Have not priced shocks lately but new Sway-a-ways are not that expensive and there are still great deals to be had on used stuff like the old Kusters under by bronco.

[SteveG]

If it works good and you already have some money tied up in good parts then it's real hard to justify rework.

That's exactly what I was going to say. There's no doubt a coil-over has the potential to work better, but you could upgrade a lot of other parts before truly needing to upgrade to coil-overs. I'd be willing to bet there is A LOT of improvement still to be had through shock tuning with your current front end.

As for your alignment issues, I don't see what replacing the radius arms would do as opposed to setting the front end up so all your current parts work together.

[Polarcub]

If it works good and you already have some money tied up in good parts then it's real hard to justify rework.

That's exactly what I was going to say. There's no doubt a coil-over has the potential to work better, but you could upgrade a lot of other parts before truly needing to upgrade to coil-overs. I'd be willing to bet there is A LOT of improvement still to be had through shock tuning with your current front end.

As for your alignment issues, I don't see what replacing the radius arms would do as opposed to setting the front end up so all your current parts work together.

I agree that there is room to improve the existing pieces, and it works pretty darn good....THe only thing with the radius arms is jsut that getting things right for the auto fab buckets. When the stock buckets were there no alignment issues on the coils at all. I think its just a difference in the buckets but it drives me nuts. TO put the arms where they need to be with regards to the heims I need to relocate the bracket.

If I had to start over I would go coilover form the start...I am just ahving a hard time justifying the money evven though I know I will get some serious good guy pricing on things its still time and money. If I have abuyer fo rmy other stuff that may sway me as well. Hmmm
I guess I am just really trying to decide if I ma trying to be like all the cool kids or is there really that much to gain for what I do.....lol

[Polarcub]

You should sell em to me. That would make it. Cooler.:.

That is a distinct possability...one of my concerns is that I want to have a buyer lined up for the buckets/arms so I can roll it into the coilovers cutting my out of pocket down. If your serious we can talk I may be doing it as soon as April dpending on a few things.

[tcm glx]

If it works good and you already have some money tied up in good parts then it's real hard to justify rework.

That's exactly what I was going to say. There's no doubt a coil-over has the potential to work better, but you could upgrade a lot of other parts before truly needing to upgrade to coil-overs. I'd be willing to bet there is A LOT of improvement still to be had through shock tuning with your current front end.

As for your alignment issues, I don't see what replacing the radius arms would do as opposed to setting the front end up so all your current parts work together.

Jeremey..... I have seen your Bronco work.,... and I am with these guys.... I am sure you can tune it to get a bit more. I went to the coilovers only because i could not find buckets and didnt have much money tied up in the coils and 5100s..... I am sure with some tuning, you could get that thing to fly.

The radius arm issue is neither here nor there, your gonna have to fix it with your coil setup, as well as with a coilover setup.... so do not let that be the deciding factor.

At the end of the day, do you want to dump some money into the toy, or not is the question..... not will you see a HUGE difference in performance.

[Nick]

This is a question that i pondered for a long time. After the research that i did, i came to the conclusion that, A. I wasn't going to let just anyone do the work, and B. It gets costly.

There is more involved in a coilover front end than just making shock hoops. I spoke with John at Autofab, and he gave me a whole laundry list of things that need to be done in order to make a coilover perform correctly. I also spoke with Mark Keifer, and had seen his work in person. In all Honesty, for me, those are the only 2 people that i would allow to do coilovers on my truck!

The cost was another factor for me. Coilovers done right cost! Sure you can have somone slap something together, but how much are you going to spend in the end getting it to work right? What about spring rates? Playing around with spring rates to get the ride quality that you want can get pricey, you are looking at $200 a side for coils, it adds up!

Ultimately, this great economy made my decision for me! I put together an Autofab coil bucket set up for the price of one coilover! Am i down about that? Not at all! I have seen some properly set up coil bucket trucks that rock! And, it's technology that i can easily understand.

Before you make the jump to coilovers, have someone like Mark look at your current set up, and see what he says. Then have an experienced shock person valve your shocks. I think that once you get your set up dialed in, you'll be happy!

[Polarcub]

This is a question that i pondered for a long time. After the research that i did, i came to the conclusion that, A. I wasn't going to let just anyone do the work, and B. It gets costly.

There is more involved in a coilover front end than just making shock hoops. I spoke with John at Autofab, and he gave me a whole laundry list of things that need to be done in order to make a coilover perform correctly. I also spoke with Mark Keifer, and had seen his work in person. In all Honesty, for me, those are the only 2 people that i would allow to do coilovers on my truck!

The cost was another factor for me. Coilovers done right cost! Sure you can have somone slap something together, but how much are you going to spend in the end getting it to work right? What about spring rates? Playing around with spring rates to get the ride quality that you want can get pricey, you are looking at $200 a side for coils, it adds up!

Ultimately, this great economy made my decision for me! I put together an Autofab coil bucket set up for the price of one coilover! Am i down about that? Not at all! I have seen some properly set up coil bucket trucks that rock! And, it's technology that i can easily understand.

Before you make the jump to coilovers, have someone like Mark look at your current set up, and see what he says. Then have an experienced shock person valve your shocks. I think that once you get your set up dialed in, you'll be happy!

I totally agree Nick...I know that the cost is more than the coilovers themselves...I know that my setup can work better than it does now with a little tweaking and honestly I just not so sure I will ever drive this any harder than what coilovers might get me.
I like the setup and it works well, now that the rear is set up better its really pretty darn good but I need to get the time/money to have a good shock evaluation/tuning session with someone who knows better than I do whats going on.
If I did jumnp to coilovers I would also go +4 on the beams so again the cost just keeps going and the headaches of getting it dialed in. Half of that battle is done already.
I think my money would be better spent in getting the bumps up front and moving on to things liek the cage etc...
I think though I will continue to keep an eye out for the parts I want for going coilover and be patient and work with what I have got.
I am going to get some new springs when I get back as the current ones have settled quite a bit, I think partly form the weird angle I had on them intially,
I will probably have BlackMarket build me a new set of Arms and a cross member
If/when I go coilover I will have BlackMarket do it he has done some great work fo rme so far and my brothers coilovers are set up great he did a nice job on that...I think that whoever you use you have to be comfortable with working with them for the end product otehrwise you do run into problems. Either its not what you wanted or some folks will do a hack job....there is defiantely more going on than most think and I am just starting to get a better grasp on it.
I do want to get my fenders done too when I get back so I can work on prettying up the polarcub a bit, tired of Yikes getting all the eyeballing hahah thanks for all the thoughts guys I do appreciate it.

[tcm glx]

Hey Jeremy,
One other thought to keep in mind......... remember you told me that when you went from the dual 5100s to what your on now, you only saw marginal improvement, mostly in shock fade.... keep that in mind! You dropped quite a bit on your coil buckets and shocks..... now your gonna drop a ton more on coilovers.. and then think back and say.... wow, where did the $3000K go!!

[Polarcub]

Hey Jeremy,
One other thought to keep in mind......... remember you told me that when you went from the dual 5100s to what your on now, you only saw marginal improvement, mostly in shock fade.... keep that in mind! You dropped quite a bit on your coil buckets and shocks..... now your gonna drop a ton more on coilovers.. and then think back and say.... wow, where did the $3000K go!!

Too true Tony...I guess that is why I have this conflict.....I think I am going to just finish what I have and call it a day...I would really like to start another project in the next year or so that will be more!!! So the money would be better spent just tweaking out the bronco and finishing it. It works great for what i need out of it.

[philofab]

The only improvement that coil overs get you is a dual spring rate and a slight bit more droop. Will you be able to tell the difference? Probably not. If you were starting from scratch the coil overs might make sense money wise but not if everything has been dome already. You would be wiser to spend your time and/or money on fine tuning on it.

[minihorns]

I wish I knew Autofab still made those coilbuckets.......I would have defintaly gone that way. Coilovers are a pretty huge endeavor that take a lot of time....not only in the fab dept.......but figuring out valvings and spring rates.

Since you have the buckets in place......I would consider a 2.65" 4-Tube Bilstein Bypass. This would be a "bolt in" deal and give you the ability to really dail in your suspension. Add some Hydro bumps and this will be a really nice setup.

[Polarcub]

I wish I knew Autofab still made those coilbuckets.......I would have defintaly gone that way. Coilovers are a pretty huge endeavor that take a lot of time....not only in the fab dept.......but figuring out valvings and spring rates.

Since you have the buckets in place......I would consider a 2.65" 4-Tube Bilstein Bypass. This would be a "bolt in" deal and give you the ability to really dail in your suspension. Add some Hydro bumps and this will be a really nice setup.

Funny you say that, I already have a set of Bilstein 4 tubes in the rear and like them alot. THey need to be revlaved though but they ae nice. That has been my thought for a while to add bypasses up front and the bumps of course and call it good. The truck works well now and I relaly want to get the rest of it finished up which is another reason I think it will remain buckets. That thought may change at some point but at least today that is my decision haha

[minihorns]

I have a 4-Tube Bypass on the back of mine also........I have a pretty good valving if you want to try it?

[Polarcub]

I have a 4-Tube Bypass on the back of mine also........I have a pretty good valving if you want to try it?

That would be cool, I dont know what I have in there now, but I need more compression, I am running 12" mounted on the spring plates into the cab with about 4 degree lean to the rear. Works great jsut need to be able to get more compression than I have now. I am on the bumps a good deal, could probably get away with my valving now if I get the rear hyd bumps in but then I am just wasting the shoock as I have both compression tubes fully closed right now. YOu can drop me a PM if you dont want to post the stack in here. I should be pulling mine in aobut 3 weeks now...almost home Thanks.

[Frontrunner54]

I have a 4-Tube Bypass on the back of mine also........I have a pretty good valving if you want to try it?

Could you send me some pics? I have some 10" 3-Tubes, that I want to mount behind my coilbuckets.

[Threat Motorsports]

I would just tune the shocks more in your case. Its a Bronco so its only really capable of so much anyways. Coilovers will have a few added benefits over a coil bucket kit but that all goes out the window if whoever sets them up doesn't know what they are doing. On any beam truck coil overs should to be set up correctly starting with the mounting points. Without correct mounting points you are going to end up with something just a little better then a coil bucket kit which isn't worth the money IMO.

[CITYRAT]

Ive been around the desert scene most of my life. Ive looked under a thousand hoods to check out suspensions. Seen just about everything. My question is what main points do you have to follow to set up a beam truck with coilovers?..You mentioned mounting points as one of these key points. What are the other factors?.. Just want to know what to look for and compare to my truck and others..

[Frontrunner54]

I'm not an expert on beams at all... but with any suspension setup, your valving, shock length, shock angle, shock placement, spring length, and spring rates are the crucials.

The sprung weight of that corner, the length of your control arm (beam), how far out the shock is placed (distance from each pivot), angle of the shock (which I usually determine by 90 degrees to the contol arm at full bump), running dual rate or tripple rate, etc... Oh yeah, and where you want your ride height to be, like how much bump and droop.

I wish I had the funds for a 12" coil-carrier monted on the beam, and a 14" bypass mounted in front of the beam. I usually just settle on whatever though, becase I cant stand missing out on trips.