EFI Tech and removing "Unecessary" Components

[SteveG]

I often see posts asking whether or not it's OK to remove certain EFI/Emissions parts from a vehicle and how it'll affect engine performance. If done correctly, several parts can be removed without ill-effects.

There are a few questions you need to answer before modifying EFI systems.

1. What (if anything) are you going to gain by modifying it?
2. Are you familiar enough with your EFI system to modify it?
3. Are you familiar enough with your EFI system to diagnose it when there is a problem?

Question 3 is what inspired me to make this post. If you aren't very familiar with your EFI system and you don't know exactly what removing sensors, solenoids, etc. from the system will do. You should not be removing them. If you think you will ever need to take the car to someone (possibly a mechanic) to diagnose, then you should either not be removing parts or you better do a damn good job of it.

Generally, good mechanics (really, this applies to anyone) don't like working on modified piles of crap. They like to work on stuff that works as intended so that there are not a bunch of variables that they have no experience with and can't predict how they affect the entire system. For the most part, when a modified car or truck comes into our shop, the inexperienced hack building it has done such a piss-poor job of modifying electronics and EFI components and wiring that you can't make any sense of it. They almost always need hours worth of clean-up work to get the thing to a point where we can start performing basic diagnostics.

The moral of the post is build your stuff so it can be worked on... by anyone. There will likely come a time when you simply can't figure something out and it's nice to have the option of taking it to a good honest diagnostic tech and having them diagnose it for you. If you're truck is hacked and there are wires hanging all over the place with bad connections and improper repairs, it will likely get turned away at the door.

P.S. This is not directed at anyone or any specific vehicle. It is simply an observation I've made that I thought was worth sharing.

[philofab]

Good post.

FYI, Emissions components including the cat converter, charcoal canister, and EGR do not lower performance. As a matter of fact, an ODBII vehicle will run worse if this stuff is removed.

[hobbyturnedobsession]

Correct me if I'm wrong but a cat only takes up less than 1% of your horsepower. Thats if its not full of crap and if it is its time to bite the bullet and have it swapped out.

[yikes]

I knew I shouldn't have left you my keys Steve. Haha!

[SteveG]

HA! I put that disclaimer P.S. there for a reason. I swear I'm not pointing fingers here!

[yogib]

I ditched my Air pump, EGR,and cat. I dont have emmisions to worry about where im at. I used this. http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=9 The EGR eliminator plug. and just made a block off plate for the EGR. The bronco ran good but a little lean.Probably because of the long tube headers and dual exhaust and K&N intake.I also installed a adjustable fuel regulator,and ported stock intake with the BBK 61mm X2 TB.Ran about the same from idle to mid.But the BBK and ported intake gave me another 1,000 rpm on top before sign off.After that I installed Aluminum heads with 205cc intake runners,2.02 in. 1.64 ex. valves.And stainless roller rockers 1.6 ratio.And 24Lb. injectors. With the heads on It gained more power.BUT im still lean and not getting nearly as much power as I should.I have all the parts to convert to Mass Air. Layover injector and MAF meter harness from RJM,Mustang A3M 5-speed 5.0 computer,80mm mustang Cobra MAF meter. Now it,s just time to install it all.That should cure my Lean issue and run considerably better.

[philofab]

That's a whole lot of nice parts. You really need a custom tuned ECM for all that. All the tables are tuned for the emmissions equipment. Maybe look into a local dyno shop or getting yourself a wideband O2 with a Quarterhorse or TwEECer and learning how to use them. FYI, emissions are federal and it's illegal to remove tha stuff even though there is no testing in your area. If all your orginal emssions equipment was there I bet your truck wouldn't be running so lean and it most likely would make a little bit more power.

I ditched my Air pump, EGR,and cat. I dont have emmisions to worry about where im at. I used this. http://rjminjectiontech.com/?p=9 The EGR eliminator plug. and just made a block off plate for the EGR. The bronco ran good but a little lean.Probably because of the long tube headers and dual exhaust and K&N intake.I also installed a adjustable fuel regulator,and ported stock intake with the BBK 61mm X2 TB.Ran about the same from idle to mid.But the BBK and ported intake gave me another 1,000 rpm on top before sign off.After that I installed Aluminum heads with 205cc intake runners,2.02 in. 1.64 ex. valves.And stainless roller rockers 1.6 ratio.And 24Lb. injectors. With the heads on It gained more power.BUT im still lean and not getting nearly as much power as I should.I have all the parts to convert to Mass Air. Layover injector and MAF meter harness from RJM,Mustang A3M 5-speed 5.0 computer,80mm mustang Cobra MAF meter. Now it,s just time to install it all.That should cure my Lean issue and run considerably better.

[yogib]

Ya Ive been eyeing the QuarterHorse and want to get a wideband and a gauge to help tune it in.I just purchased a nice Paxton supercharger with 7Lb. boost pulley and FMU or fuel management unit. as there called. Have to custom fab a mount for it and install it where the AC compressor was.Just another reason to get the Mass Air on and get a QuarterHorse unit.It,s only money lol.

[philofab]

Ya Ive been eyeing the QuarterHorse and want to get a wideband and a gauge to help tune it in.I just purchased a nice Paxton supercharger with 7Lb. boost pulley and FMU or fuel management unit. as there called. Have to custom fab a mount for it and install it where the AC compressor was.Just another reason to get the Mass Air on and get a QuarterHorse unit.It,s only money lol.

I've always had better luck tuning boosted applications with 2 or 3 bar map sensors. I hate tuning with MAF above vaccume.

[damon1272]

Generally, good mechanics (really, this applies to anyone) don't like working on modified piles of crap. They like to work on stuff that works as intended so that there are not a bunch of variables that they have no experience with and can't predict how they affect the entire system. For the most part, when a modified car or truck comes into our shop, the inexperienced hack building it has done such a piss-poor job of modifying electronics and EFI components and wiring that you can't make any sense of it. They almost always need hours worth of clean-up work to get the thing to a point where we can start performing basic diagnostics.

No truer words have been spoken! This why I am glad I changed carreers and got away from full time mechanical work.

[AussieRod]

Generally, good mechanics (really, this applies to anyone) don't like working on modified piles of crap. They like to work on stuff that works as intended so that there are not a bunch of variables that they have no experience with and can't predict how they affect the entire system. For the most part, when a modified car or truck comes into our shop, the inexperienced hack building it has done such a piss-poor job of modifying electronics and EFI components and wiring that you can't make any sense of it. They almost always need hours worth of clean-up work to get the thing to a point where we can start performing basic diagnostics.

No truer words have been spoken! This why I am glad I changed carreers and got away from full time mechanical work.

x 3. Amen! (He wasn't picking on you, Yikes....... really)

[SteveG]

(He wasn't picking on you, Yikes....... really)

Definitely not. I should note that his attention to detail is exemplary. Very clean and sanitary. Keep up the good work!

[AussieRod]

(He wasn't picking on you, Yikes....... really)

Definitely not. I should note that his attention to detail is exemplary. Very clean and sanitary. Keep up the good work!

Absolutely! After rereading his FSB and GFB thread severals times I couldn't agree more. I cant wait to see it in person one day.

[hobbyturnedobsession]

Believe you me its better even in person.

[baja-chris]

I run the quarterhorse and hired someone to help me tune it with a wideband. Thumbs up for the quarterhorse, nice product.

[yogib]

I run the quarterhorse and hired someone to help me tune it with a wideband. Thumbs up for the quarterhorse, nice product.

Do you remember what software they used to tune it with? I have access to a innovative wideband meter that I could use. Just need to ad in a extra 0-2 bung.Also curious what computer your running in yours? I have a A-3M mustang 5.0 5-speed one to use.

[baja-chris]

Binary Editor
http://www.eecanalyzer.net/

[BDKW1]

The stock speed density's suck for any modifications. I ran a plug in SDS unit. Very easy to tune with the little controller. Got it very close just driving around, close enough that it never went on the dyno. I'm sure there was more in it, but it wasn't worth it to Me.

[jimmyd]

this is a question mainly for guys who have "off-road only" trucks, did a search can't find what i am looking for. i want to delete the smog equipment, including EGR on my truck, for various reasons, main being clearing up room for engine cage and lightening my load up front and also because i want to run aftermarket headers. its an 97 EFI 460. i know there are egr deletion kits i can purchase, but what else am i getting into with this. am i going to have a lot of problems making this truck run right after this?

also, on a side note this is what i have been doing all weekend. trying to pull the heads.... would have had them pulled but the egr tube is bolted into the back of the the drivers side header, and then another tube from the egr, runs along the firewall to one of the canisters but has a bracket that is bolted to the back of the passenger side head!!! ahhhhh!!!

IMAG0093 (640x427).jpg (106.96 KiB) Viewed 2239 times

IMAG0094 (427x640).jpg (134.26 KiB) Viewed 2239 times

IMAG0095 (640x427).jpg (89.22 KiB) Viewed 2239 times

ADMIN EDIT: Post above merged into this one from another thread.

[jimmyd]

thanks... i swear i searched! but i like how i got added to the thread about having messy work.... best i can do, i cant spend $2000 getting this job done at a shop.