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ChaseTruck754 wrote:Well - based on that post I will have to look into the size 65 AGMs from Kevin or another battery supplier.

Is it safe to assume these things will do fine as "starting" batteries as well? I have heard that when running duals the batteries need to be the same size/output (CCA's I would assume here) or they will drain/kill each other.

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The internal resistance of any AGM batt is quite low. The result is very high CCAs They work great as starting batts. The Panasonic example is not an anomlie. With duals and when running them in parallel for an extreme load like a winch the one with the lowest reserve capacity will die faster because its total amount of energy is less. This should not be a concern since you will have the engine running and be dumping the full amps from the alternator. Anyway I have never heard of one batt killing another when hooked in parallel. Some may think that could happen but there is nothing in physics that woiuld hint that that could be possible. Remember that AGM batts do not short out. Its just not possible except is some way far fetched senerio.
I will repeat for a winch rig one size 65 AGM is much better functionally than any two Optimas. Get two 65s and you could really kill the winch before the batts run down.
Get a 3G alternator like most of us as it puts out 170 amps. Alternator output is porportional to its RPMs so rev the engine to get even more amps since the shortfall of the alternator wil be supplemnetd by the batts.
Paul

PaulW wrote:Get a 3G alternator like most of us as it puts out 170 amps. Alternator output is porportional to its RPMs so rev the engine to get even more amps since the shortfall of the alternator wil be supplemnetd by the batts.
Paul

The 3G with a 6 rib belt will slip around 155 amps. If your upgrading above that you need an 8 rib belt. I can get large case 3g alts that push 200 amps. Don't bother if you have a single v-belt, the belt will get destroyed constantly.

philofab wrote:Both are currently made in the same factory with the same stuff.... I rarely ever had to warranty these batteries and I now do it at a fairly heavy rate.

I wondered about the quality going downhill. I never used to have problems with the Orbitals and seemed to have problems more often with my most recent purchases.

Looks like the reason Optimas and Orbitals are no longer lasting as long is because they moved production to Mexico and now use "reclaimed" lead rather than fresh lead.

Looks like Odyssey is now making a group 65 battery. I am hearing good things about it. I will get more info.

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1750t.htm

Info on new group 65

I'll post a lot of info when I get home, when I'm not on my phone. Some true and not true info posted...if you want answers now, call the shop...626-914-3717....Kevin

philofab wrote:The 3G with a 6 rib belt will slip around 155 amps. If your upgrading above that you need an 8 rib belt. I can get large case 3g alts that push 200 amps. Don't bother if you have a single v-belt, the belt will get destroyed constantly.

Good to know!

Here is what I know/see selling batteries 6 days a week....

Optima is made by Johnson Controls, they bought Optima about 4-5 yrs ago. Johnson Controls makes 90% of Interstates (250,000 dealers) batteries therefore they can warranty them Optima. Most of the time when people buy Optima’s they think they are buying the last battery they will ever buy and proceed to abuse the shit out of it and wonder why it failed. Part of this is Optima’s fault as they lead people to believe it. Optima’s are good batteries if the correct unit is used in its correct environment. Optima makes 2 types of batteries, starting and deep cycle, starting batteries have thin plates for quick power and deep cycles have thicker plates so they can be drained and re-charged... The blues and reds come in both starting and deep cycle and the yellow only in deep cycle. In the blues and reds you can tell by the case color, dark grey is starting and light grey is deep cycle. The blue has an auto post and a stud. Yellows and reds come with side and top posts or top only. I use red tops in my 2000 F-250 Diesel(2 of these are not as much battery as 2 stock 65’s) and work them to death with 2 race radios, 1-2 GPS’, a stereo with 3 10” subs, lights etc…Reds are for starting only and I don’t recommend them for winching or playing stereos-TVs with they car off…if the reds get ran down to low they well come back a few times but after that they will most likely be junk. As for the yellows, I have better luck bringing them back to life, but they can be junk as well…keeping a battery maintained during long periods of non-use is important as Paul mention….as for the battery not starting the hot rod or lighting the lights there maybe more to it than the battery(dirty connections, loose connections etc)

Orbital is made by Exide as per my suppliers and not Johnson Controls. I have seen the same results as above with their product although I do not care for their wet automotive stuff (Wal-Mart, Autolite, and Kragen to name a few)…

Odyssey is made by Hawker-Genesis. I have about a 50% return rate on much of their product used in off road and motorcycle-Harley applications regardless of vehicle. Sometimes the warranties go well and sometimes they do not and they customer is not happy as they spent a lot of $$ on them and feel they didn’t do anything wrong, sometimes of which they didn’t. They did come out with a Group 65 battery, my cost on it is DOUBLE what an Optima is so I will not be trying one anytime soon.

Total Power is made by Concorde Battery Company who makes Lifeline. Mike Fricke, the owner of my shop had them make an off road battery 15+yrs ago for him called the Airborne Off Road of which is he has trademarked. Total Power basically sells the same battery as ours so that’s why they look similar. These are the best AGM batteries on the market IMO. I sold my 7s race truck with a battery that was 8 yrs old in and working like a champ. Ivan Stewart even ran them towards the end of his Toyota deal due to Optima’s reliability. These batteries are available in U-1, Group 24, 27, 31 and we can sell them to you.

There is a lot more to getting you the right battery for your application and if you have any questions please feel free to call me and I will help you the best that I can. For daily drivers I would run a standard flooded (wet) battery, pre-runners and race cars run an AGM of your preferred brand. If you do have AGM’s that sit, charge them periodically with low amperage chargers and too much will cook the battery. Also another thing to keep in mind is many charging systems are not set up for AGM batteries and can dry out the battery by over charging. Please keep in mind that ALL batteries WILL discharge from lack of use regardless of location (block of wood or on the ground etc) so keep your batteries charged up about every 30-45 days for maximum life.

If you have any questions or need batteries or custom made cables let me know and we can get you handled…626-914-3717

Kevin

Most batteries are made out of the USA....companies that use the old material usually have a high failure rate, but keep in mind most batteries are recycled anyways....its all in the QC..

Thanks to Kevin for taking the time to explain and give his knowledge.
I have a number of vehicles all of which are stored for 6 months per year, All have maintainers connected to them when they are not in use. The airplane guys i associate with have the same issues with infrequent use. We all choose AGM batts for the reasons Kevin says.
Anyway, several maintainers have been extensively tested by the tech guru that runs the aeroelectric list and Schumacher and Battery Tender have very proper maintainers. The best value is the Schumacher model 1562A. They come in different flavors like SEM , WM, etc. (SEM-1562A is my newest one. About $18 at Walmart). Some are 6/12 some are 12 only. Some are 1a some are 1.5a. All have the same chip, including Battery Tender which costs much more. These things will work on any lead acid batt. Including flooded. AGM, Gel etc.
Use the things whenever your rig is parked for a week or more and your batt will read 13.1+ and youyr AGM will have the best of care.
Pauk W

Please note that Battery Tenders etc are maintainers only, not recomended to charge up a "dead" battery...for that use a 10-12amp charger over night and if its going to come back and be good it will...be aware of the 100amp start function on a dead battery, I have seen more blown up batteries from the 100amp quick engine start fuction on chargers...slower is better for charging...if the battery is dead try jump starting from another car...

Good info for sure!

I may have to add a battery tended like the ones Paul listed to my shopping list for this weekend. I didn't know they were so cheap. Although I will admit I never looked...

I have been planning on buying one of these as I was told they are better for charging the AGM's.
http://www.blackanddecker.com/productgu ... =2#details

Between the above 2 things I should be all set. Now I just have to get the trucks running

Everything Kevin said is correct. The stuff I posted was off the top of my head and I checked on Optimas and Orbital being the same and I was wrong. I do see a lot of battery failures due to having to much load on to small of a battery. I see this constantly on Harley Davidsons with the Odyssey batteries.

The block of wood thing was true a long time ago on flooded batteries but no longer matters on modern stuff. Remember to keep batteries charged up as the lower the voltage is below 12.1v the quicker sulfate builds up on the plates which is one of the most common things to damage a battery.

In talking to my buddy the sulfate can be "shocked" off a "wet" battery but not an AGM. That is if they are dead for so long the sulfate gets really bad.
So wet batteries can be brought back, but AGMs take it much harder. If they go below 10v according to him they can be brought back to charge, but the overall life of the battery will be greatly diminished.

The Odyssey Group 65 has a four year free replacement warranty, 1750 cranking amps, and deep cycle capabilities. It IS expensive at about $300 retail but your getting a battery that is equivalent to 1.5 or so optima red tops that fits correctly in a Ford battery tray. BTW, the cranking amps are tested slightly different than an optima so that's why is not double. This battery has not been out long enough to know if it lasts or not but the manufacturer claims 8 years.

Steve, stick with the Schumacher or Battery Tender...Black and Decker should stick to making cheap power tools...lol

Thanks Kevin.
I guess it's time to pick up the Schumacher...

Wow! I never gave this much thought to batteries. Thanks for all the awesome info!

Didn't have a chance to get to Waldo's Mart while at my parents yesterday so no Schumacher for me yet...


On a semi side note. Paul - where do you find your group 65 AGMs? Only finding wet's in that size - aside from the Odessy I don't want to pay for.

did a little google searching and found this. Any opinions? http://www.batteryprice.com/deka-9A65-a ... ery-1.aspx