Sway Bar

[sydude]

For all of those who still need sway bars (at least in the front) for street duty, but don't want to use the stock bars with drop brackets, is there a common solution amongst the go fast crowd? I searched quite a bit, but nothing definitive. So maybe this can be a good tutorial on the subject? My friend's Jeep has a Teraflex sway bar which is really meaty and cool looking, and has built in disconnects. It runs the torsion bar (I think that's what it's called) through the frame rails up front, and the sway bar arms are parallel with the frame rails when the suspension is roughly level.

Any experience or thoughts on this?

Here are a couple of the kits that are available that I thought could roughly work:

http://www.currieenterprises.com/CESTOR ... px?id=3074

or

http://www.currieenterprises.com/CESTOR ... px?id=1257

or

http://www.teraflex.biz/products/new-fo ... -2011.html

[ntsqd]

I'll bite. There is a method formerly used on Champ Cars and similar that only one off road mfg has cottoned onto thus far.
http://www.jksmfg.com/sb/

I've messed around with modeling it. I actually made these models as a guess when the photographer hinted about the JKS product in a thread.
Full soft:


Full Stiff:


It could be built using Speedway Engrg torsions and modified arms.

On the Champ cars the tip of the blade is constrained to a single plane of motion. Somewhere in one of his books Carroll Smith has un-fond things to say about the design, but he was chassis tuning bump-steer to within .005" If it can deflect at all laterally all control is lost and the sway rate is either full stiff or full soft. Which is probably fine for this application.

[damon1272]

California pre fun also offers a off road type sway bar like currie. I saw it in the Kartek catalog today. Nice set up but not as good as the post before.

[monkei]

I've seen the curries adapted for a SAS bronco: http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/sho ... ie&page=14

I'm looking for a larger than stock front bar that'll work well with TTB on-road (something like a big Hellwig) and can be quickly disconnected and rotated forward outta' the way. The Currie bars aren't meant to perform as well as a stock bar on road, but they're supposed to be a roll control device that can be used offroad without limiting travel.

[ntsqd]

I thought it was Superlift who had a QD on the market that used a 4WD locking hub, but I couldn't find it on their page.

[sydude]

I'll bite. There is a method formerly used on Champ Cars and similar that only one off road mfg has cottoned onto thus far.
http://www.jksmfg.com/sb/

I've messed around with modeling it. I actually made these models as a guess when the photographer hinted about the JKS product in a thread.

On the Champ cars the tip of the blade is constrained to a single plane of motion. Somewhere in one of his books Carroll Smith has un-fond things to say about the design, but he was chassis tuning bump-steer to within .005" If it can deflect at all laterally all control is lost and the sway rate is either full stiff or full soft. Which is probably fine for this application.

That system will work, but I suspect it will take too much work for me. A friend just told me that he tried to do the Currie style sway bar, but he couldn't get it to work due to the frame rails getting in the way. I think I've got a way to make it work - I'll draw it up and post it.

[78Class3]

Out of curriosity, how many of the true pre-runner or racers are using the sway bars in front? rear? both? On my straight axle 78 I took the rear one off and the front one seems to be in the way and bulky and I want to ditch it for an aftermarket sway bar or just leave it off. What do you all think?

[Squarehead]

I ditched my front and rear swaybars and didn't notice any adverse effects, even on the street. I don't miss 'em at all.

[Nick]

I ditched my front and rear swaybars and didn't notice any adverse effects, even on the street. I don't miss 'em at all.

Same here. I actually found that cornering on the road was improved, once i went with the lt set-up.

[ntsqd]

Something that I think primarily only road & circle track racers really realize, since they deal with it the most, is that the axle with the stiffest roll-rate has the least cornering traction. Not the most, the least. If the car understeers stiffen the rear bar or soften the front bar. Do the reverse for oversteer.

From looking at one of his older trucks RG includes the rear bar when he wants to drive it tail-happy and deletes it when he wants to just go around the corner.

In pavement racing the bars are tuned to driver preference. Usually that is in the zone of neutral handling, but not always. On the street the OE's tune the bar(s) to give us understeer because for Joe/Josephine Average driver that is the safest set-up.

Removing the swaybar isn't the end of the world, but it will change the way that the truck drives and should be driven with care until you're used to it.

[Dust]

Out of curriosity, how many of the true pre-runner or racers are using the sway bars in front? rear? both? On my straight axle 78 I took the rear one off and the front one seems to be in the way and bulky and I want to ditch it for an aftermarket sway bar or just leave it off. What do you all think?

The first thing I did on my 79 was pull the bars, handling improved because the understeer was reduced.

[PaulW]

This subject is like politics or religon. Lots of opinions and no real conclusions. Most guys refuse to hear any input different than what they have.
Here are my observations.

For sure with an all coil setup a sway bar on the street is very good. With a rig with leafs - say in the back, then the friction between the leaves is usually enough. That is why you wont see sway bars on a Bronco prerunner. With my Bronco stock WB and rear leafs I had no sway bars and the shocks were setup to control the dynamic vehicle sway for sharp curves. My wife did not like it. I got used to it.
4 coil Jeep Wranglers have a huge sway bar in front and most all the people disconnect it on the trail for a smoother ride and to allow both wheels to grip due to articulation. Pretty scarry with it disconnected on the street. The rock crawlers do it like the 4 coil desert racers do which is a hefty rear sway bar always connected. Like my stretch Bronco.
With an older Bronco with 4 leafs its hard to imagine a sway bar would be noticable for any road condition.
My trail 72 Bronco with 4 C/O & links has a moderate sized sway bar in the rear with disconnect pins. No bar for front solid axle. No data yet but it was built by a pro so it probably will work out.
Last of all if you are towing with such a short WB as a Bronco then you will really like a sway bar - probably in the rear. Its not wise to tow with such a short WB. Danger lurks.
Paul W

[tcm glx]

Most guys refuse to hear any input different than what they have.


My wife did not like it. I got used to it.
Paul W

2 best comments right there PW!! True, everything thinks there setup is best... rightfully so, they decided to dump money into it ha ha ha...

My Bronco, also has some sway, it was more obivous after the coilovers... and I have gotten used to it.

[ntsqd]

I don't think that it can be said that there are no real conclusions. The effects of a sway bar and how to tune it or them are all knowns. Where the variability enters the picture is in what each driver's preferences are. There won't be a consensus because each driver prefers something different. You aren't going to convince someone to run a sway bar if they don't have one and like the way the truck drives. Similarly it can be hard to convince someone with a sway bar to try driving without it.

I have a 4 leaf sprung truck. With the old front leaves I had no need for a front sway bar. With these new front springs I am considering one. I suspect that a bar about the size of a Currie Anti-Rock would be enough. Might have to cruise Speedway Engineering's page and see how small they go.....

[PaulW]

I don't think that it can be said that there are no real conclusions. The effects of a sway bar and how to tune it or them are all knowns. Where the variability enters the picture is in what each driver's preferences are. There won't be a consensus because each driver prefers something different. You aren't going to convince someone to run a sway bar if they don't have one and like the way the truck drives. Similarly it can be hard to convince someone with a sway bar to try driving without it.

I have a 4 leaf sprung truck. With the old front leaves I had no need for a front sway bar. With these new front springs I am considering one. I suspect that a bar about the size of a Currie Anti-Rock would be enough. Might have to cruise Speedway Engineering's page and see how small they go.....

=======
10-4
My 72 uses a Speedway, my FSB uses a S Cone bar.
Considering front or rear on the 4 leaf truck?
PAul W

[PaulW]

[quote="ntsqd"]I don't think that it can be said that there are no real conclusions. --snip-- quote]
============
Thom, we all smile every time we see your signature

"Cross-threaded is tighter than Lock-Tite"


PW

[ntsqd]

A front bar. Just a little more body roll than I'd like in high speed corners. First need to replace the front shocks and then re-evaluate if the increase in understeer is worth it or not.

The sig line was suggested by a friend. Perfect foiler for my anality.

[baja-chris]

It really comes down to personal preference, what your using the truck for and what your driving style is.
On my stock wheelbase leaf sprung bronco I have no sway bars and switched the leafs to the narrower F150 leafs to get more body roll because I like the added articulation at low speed and the greater traction at high speeds. I've driven 4-link stock wheel base broncos with a rear spool and on the street they are downright scarry and I'd want a sway bar. But add some wheelbase and it tames them down a bit. Neither of my 4-linked 8 trucks had sway bars and I never felt like I wanted one. They would carry the left front tire through 1st gear on the street and if you were stupid you could easily put it on it's roof on the street but these were dirt racing machines and the sway was never an issue on the track. Now most trophy trucks do use rear sway bars and some also use them in front but they also have a lot more travel than my 8 trucks ever did. Bottom line for go fast broncos is I think a sway bar with leafs is undesirable but if doing a 4-link plan on using one.

Also don't forget that a leaf spring IS a sway bar. In order for the truck to sway it must twist the leaf spring along it's length and the force required to do this is very significant, in my estimation about like what a sway bar would have. Of course if you don't stay on top of your maintenance and let your spring bushings wear out then you will have some built in looseness as the springs can move in it's mount instead of twisting. I use Nylatron bushings, made on the lathe around a 4130 sleeve also cut on the lathe with the sleeve a touch longer than the bushing so the bolt can be fully torqued to lock down the sleeve so it does not spin and still allow the bushings to spin on the sleeve. The setup holds up fairly well, at least 10,000 prerun miles.

[94EddieBauer]

I feel really dumb asking about this but I am having a hell of a time trying to get my sway bar(front) back on properly. I cant figure out how to get the brackets back in the proper way and stretch the bar so that it will work. I took it off to replace all the bushings, but I just need a few tips for getting it back on easily.

Its on now but the brackets are facing upwards instead of downwards.

Thanks for any help,
Patrick

[Nick]

Why do you want to run the sway bars? All they do is limit travel/ articulation.