Steering Systems - Stock, Superunner & Equal Len. Crossover

[philofab]

On the TTBs they are seldom seen. In fact I bet nobody has seen such? Anybody seen a TTB with a damper?PaulW

my 93 2wd f-350 supercab dulley had a factory damper on it. (wish i still had that truck.) my dads 91 2wd f-350 crewcab dulley also had a factory damper on it. one notation to make both trucks had a 7.3l idi with 5speed.

Odd, my 97 did not have one. It was a 460/E4OD/CCSB/OBS

[Frontrunner54]

Shanked bolts or not... That pitman arm looks awesome! Could you post some more pics of the swinger, and mount?

[Copykat]

1.25 .120 dom tubing for the tie rods

Sounds a little thin for steering. I would have atleast gone .25 wall.

[Tchajagos]

1.25 .120 dom tubing for the tie rods

Sounds a little thin for steering. I would have atleast gone .25 wall.

Yes, before install=straight tubes

After install, bent tubes

[PaulW]

Well now I have the baja-Chris steering setup after wearing out the ambulance setup.
You know what - I can not tell the difference.
I never noticed bump steer. But I sure noticed loose parts.

If you guys can tell you have bump steer then you should have driven my truck with the ambulance setup.

Bottom line you can spend tons of dollars to emulate a race truck , but adds no value for a prerunner. What adds value is heims and fat 4130 steering tubes. And if you do that then you might as well change the links to improve a percieved attempt to make it like a race truck.

Glen has done 3 Broncos so far see the pics. Mine, Chris, & Kupec's
It sure is not perfect due to the main link that tries to droop down (see the knife edge gusset in the pic). So far we are using shock rubbers to hold it up. It does not affect the approach angle if held up. The support has to be pliable due to the angles the hiems make during articulation and turning. Any way its expensive and super strong. The passenger pivot is custom machined from a steering box part and uses lubed polly instead of a hard bearing.
Also note the ram assist whihc required a rebuilt box with ports. Found a c racke shaft and got that replaced at the same time.
So what the 3 Broncos got was a reduced cost crossover steering. No where as good as the Baja-Chris C3 build on another thread.
PaulW

[AussieRod]

Well now I have the baja-Chris steering setup after wearing out the ambulance setup.
You know what - I can not tell the difference.
I never noticed bump steer. But I sure noticed loose parts.

If you guys can tell you have bump steer then you should have driven my truck with the ambulance setup.

Bottom line you can spend tons of dollars to emulate a race truck , but adds no value for a prerunner. What adds value is heims and fat 4130 steering tubes. And if you do that then you might as well change the links to improve a percieved attempt to make it like a race truck.

Glen has done 3 Broncos so far see the pics. Mine, Chris, & Kupec's
It sure is not perfect due to the main link that tries to droop down (see the knife edge gusset in the pic). So far we are using shock rubbers to hold it up. It does not affect the approach angle if held up. The support has to be pliable due to the angles the hiems make during articulation and turning. Any way its expensive and super strong. The passenger pivot is custom machined from a steering box part and uses lubed polly instead of a hard bearing.
Also note the ram assist whihc required a rebuilt box with ports. Found a c racke shaft and got that replaced at the same time.
So what the 3 Broncos got was a reduced cost crossover steering. No where as good as the Baja-Chris C3 build on another thread.
PaulW

PaulW, you are the first I have seen to have a swinger that FOLLOWS the pitman arm, rather than swinging at 90 degrees to it. I like it! If I were to do this type of steering, thats how I would do it.

[SteveG]

Bottom line you can spend tons of dollars to emulate a race truck , but adds no value for a prerunner. What adds value is heims and fat 4130 steering tubes. And if you do that then you might as well change the links to improve a percieved attempt to make it like a race truck.

Interesting report, Paul. I've had a nice swinger for my truck for years now but haven't seen enough potential return to sit down and build corssover steering for mine.

PaulW, you are the first I have seen to have a swinger that FOLLOWS the pitman arm, rather than swinging at 90 degrees to it. I like it! If I were to do this type of steering, thats how I would do it.

I like it, too.

I don't have a ton of experience with crossover steering systems, but what little experience I do have with it has led me to my own personal conclusion that the steering pivot points are not incredibly critical. Yes, you need to put plenty of thought into it but I think in the end (for most builds), it comes down to packaging more than "perfect" geometry. To those that argue this, I would present all the different bad ass TTB/TIB trucks that are built completely differently but still work very well. I would also present the many different theories on the pitman arm pivot... that also work well.

[PaulW]

The thot process was long. I know Glen spent many hours measuring and jigging on the first build for Kupec. I know he never charged anyone for all that time. I think is just the love of creation. Even then the cost was great and included the ram assist and box mod/rebuild. However a full race setup would cost many time more, like the Chris C8 setup. The biggest drawback and delay was the custom machining ot the passenger pivot.
Glen does some really neat stuff.
PW
=======

PaulW, you are the first I have seen to have a swinger that FOLLOWS the pitman arm, rather than swinging at 90 degrees to it. I like it! If I were to do this type of steering, thats how I would do it.

Steve wrote:
I like it, too.

I don't have a ton of experience with crossover steering systems, but what little experience I do have with it has led me to my own personal conclusion that the steering pivot points are not incredibly critical. Yes, you need to put plenty of thought into it but I think in the end (for most builds), it comes down to packaging more than "perfect" geometry. To those that argue this, I would present all the different bad ass TTB/TIB trucks that are built completely differently but still work very well. I would also present the many different theories on the pitman arm pivot... that also work well.[/quote]

[SteveG]

The thot process was long. I know Glen spent many hours measuring and jigging on the first build for Kupec. I know he never charged anyone for all that time. I think is just the love of creation. Even then the cost was great and included the ram assist and box mod/rebuild

This is something that few realize about fabrication and the sales and cost of fabricated parts. Few can understand why well-designed suspension/steering components can cost so much when they appear to be so simple. It's one of those things many just won't know until you've been there.

I probably should have worded my post above a bit differently. There is no doubt that hundreds of hours of R&D that led to the creation of your steering system. It looks, and I have no doubt, works very well. I guess my point was that most if not all set ups are a compromise. Different fabricators compromise different things depending on their view of what is ultimately more important.

Regardless, your steering looks bad ass. I dig it!

[shockseals.com]

Is the passenger pivot in single shear off the frame?

I went through 2 sets of ambulance steering in only a few months.
Havent touched my crossover steering since I installed it over a year ago other than heim maintenance and adding a Lee set up.

[PaulW]

Double shear For that one. Sorry about the pic res. That camera bit the dust.
GLen dosent always go double. Its all about cost vs benefit and what loads are on the joint. Double shear is not the recipe for all joints. When he goes single he uses metal lock nuts and I take them apart and add a large dia washer and red loctite. So far he has left me enough threads. (just on the 72 so far). That reminds me to bring some fat G8 washers from CO to SF.

My ambulance setup lasted several years and the TREs were and very loose when I removed them. I gave that stuff to Juan G. Maybe he can rebuild it for one of his projects?
So far I have never had to have any hiems replaced on any joint on my truck. Some are over 5 years old. Of course the steering is still new and probably only has 1-2k miles. Glen always uses the biggest heims as possible on every joint so as to minimise maintence.
How do shock ends hold up? Mine are fine so far.
PW
=======

Is the passenger pivot in single shear off the frame?
I went through 2 sets of ambulance steering in only a few months.
Havent touched my crossover steering since I installed it over a year ago other than heim maintenance and adding a Lee set up.

[Deleted Account]

Is the passenger pivot in single shear off the frame?

I went through 2 sets of ambulance steering in only a few months.
Havent touched my crossover steering since I installed it over a year ago other than heim maintenance and adding a Lee set up.

and i would bet it steered differantly with the crossover too.. i know mine was wayyyyyyy differant. its touchy but goes where you piont it. it turns good left and right now... after sideswiping an bank at 60 i decided that steering was not optional.

[yikes]

after sideswiping a bank at 60 i decided that steering was not optional.

What I want to know is...did you get away with all the cash?

[PaulW]

Is the passenger pivot in single shear off the frame?

I went through 2 sets of ambulance steering in only a few months.
Havent touched my crossover steering since I installed it over a year ago other than heim maintenance and adding a Lee set up.

and i would bet it steered differantly with the crossover too.. i know mine was wayyyyyyy differant. its touchy but goes where you piont it. it turns good left and right now... after sideswiping an bank at 60 i decided that steering was not optional.

====
The progression:
Replace stock TR with the HD ambulance one = better feel than stock.
Replace worn TREs replaced with new, or replace the ambulance with new = better feel
Convert to SREs and it gets better.
Convert to crossover and small differnce would probably felt, especiallly if fat tubes are used to reduce the flex.
Add ram assist and then the feel gets really great. And the loads on the weak box will prolong its life. Dont forget to get the box internals replaced before the thing fails completely. Doing box update & mod at the same time as the ram mod for the box save $.
Yup, it all costs. Each of the stages above are improvements over stock and the cost gets progressively higher. Skip steps and save.
If one has tons of spare time then DIY will give acceptable result for all items.
PW

[mesquito_creek]

For what its worth,.... my junk held up to a couple thousand miles in baja this season. From El Gulfo to Gonzaga to Endrieda and back and forth couple of times. Plus the 260 miles of hwy driving back to the states last weekend... Way better than when I hit the tree at 35 mph with the stock tie rode broke at the adjuster/coupler....

[shockseals.com]

Is the passenger pivot in single shear off the frame?

I went through 2 sets of ambulance steering in only a few months.
Havent touched my crossover steering since I installed it over a year ago other than heim maintenance and adding a Lee set up.

and i would bet it steered differantly with the crossover too.. i know mine was wayyyyyyy differant. its touchy but goes where you piont it. it turns good left and right now... after sideswiping an bank at 60 i decided that steering was not optional.

====
The progression:
Replace stock TR with the HD ambulance one = better feel than stock.
Replace worn TREs replaced with new, or replace the ambulance with new = better feel
Convert to SREs and it gets better.
Convert to crossover and small differnce would probably felt, especiallly if fat tubes are used to reduce the flex.
Add ram assist and then the feel gets really great. And the loads on the weak box will prolong its life. Dont forget to get the box internals replaced before the thing fails completely. Doing box update & mod at the same time as the ram mod for the box save $.
Yup, it all costs. Each of the stages above are improvements over stock and the cost gets progressively higher. Skip steps and save.
If one has tons of spare time then DIY will give acceptable result for all items.
PW

2-3k to do steering complete...depending on how much you do yourself. Tommy Lee is about $1k for pump rebuild+hotrod/ram/box port and rebuild/hoses/fittings. Add $200 for a new from Ford sector shaft if you want to be on the safe side.

I recommend doing it.

[tcm glx]

Bring back up a older thread, I have been trying to use the parts numbers listed but am not having much luck for the ambulance steering.

Has anyone purchased recently and if so can u bring up te part numbers again plz.

[Brad12]

Bring back up a older thread, I have been trying to use the parts numbers listed but am not having much luck for the ambulance steering.

Has anyone purchased recently and if so can u bring up te part numbers again plz.

Check out this thread in the Broncospeed section of "the other site"...

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/sho ... p?t=161766

[ocejo]

Before just grabbing stock replacement TREs, I thought I'd ask about the upgraded tie rod swap from the F250 trucks.

Anyone here running upgraded steering(aside from heims) that can chime in with tips. I was reading through this thread on fullsizebronco, but did not find anything stating that the F250 outer rods work with the stock sleeves....

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/sho ... p?t=161766

[ChaseTruck754]

I think the "ambulance" steering is the one most guys here run.