Overdrive transmissions????????

[Wrightracing.net]

Ok, So I have a C6 for my Bronco and I ran an AOD for many years.
I hated the AOD because I had do a full rebuild twice and I replaced the reverse clutches once on its own. I always ran a B&M trans cooler and stage 2 shift kit. The C6 never had an issue with the same setup.

The Bronco is a trailer queen most of the time but I was just thinking about overdrives. If the Bronco was longer, I would do a Gear Vendor Overdrive.

So what is the strongest affordable overdrive transmission that can be bolted to a
351W and a NP205 transfer case? I am not apposed to a 700R4 with an adaptor but like the Gear Vendor, Length is a factor with a long travel Bronco.

So let the debate begin. Facts, support your claim with examples.
No Ford or Chevy name calling.

Yet, Ford = For Off Road Domination... he he, sorry I won't do that in this thread again.

[PaulW]

Maybe ToddZ will reply? He has a 700r4+Atlas3 in his EB. Pretty good setup IMO. The 700r4 is still a vintage setup compared to the electrically controlled ones. It gets pricey to go modern.

I have AOD/D20 in my EB and I long for a more modern setup. I hate the AOD. Its quite a throw back and the 700r4 is quite similar but with better gear selection.

You probably have already looked, but here are some links to sort out the length issue
http://www.stak4x4.com/Auto_Adapters/th700r4.htm
length chart
http://www.stak4x4.com/tech.htm
and
http://www.bcbroncos.com/drivetrainautomatictcase.html
and
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-dim/

[philofab]

So what is the strongest affordable overdrive transmission that can be bolted to a
351W and a NP205 transfer case?

M5R2 or ZF5 is the strongest. Also, these are shorter than an E4OD.

E4OD with the correct 4R100 parts is super strong too but requires some complicated electronics to control.

4L80/4L85 is very strong too and can be run without electronics if you don't mind manual control. Adapters to put it in will be $$$.

[drewbee88]

So what is the strongest affordable overdrive transmission that can be bolted to a
351W and a NP205 transfer case?

M5R2 or ZF5 is the strongest. Also, these are shorter than an E4OD.

E4OD with the correct 4R100 parts is super strong too but requires some complicated electronics to control.

4L80/4L85 is very strong too and can be run without electronics if you don't mind manual control. Adapters to put it in will be $$$.

I love the 4l80 as they are very strong. Expensive to put behind a ford motor though. For the price of adapters would cost you could probably do a whole lq9 or lq4 motor swap with 4l80 mated to it.

[Wrightracing.net]

One of my dislikes is the need for Electronic controls for the transmission. If I ever get around to building my 74-75 f250 Supercab TTB and linked 3 seater. I will do a C6 and gear vendor over drive.

I was considering taking the AOD to Calhane to be built but I would be lucky to get out of there for under $3000

[Rmc]

Everything culhane touches is 5k. I'd try Mogie or tranny mike first. Let me know if you need either of their numbers as I have both.

[ChaseTruck754]

One of my dislikes is the need for Electronic controls for the transmission. If I ever get around to building my 74-75 f250 Supercab TTB and linked 3 seater. I will do a C6 and gear vendor over drive.

I was considering taking the AOD to Calhane to be built but I would be lucky to get out of there for under $3000

And you'd still have an AOD...

Sorry, but I hate those POS's with a passion!

[PaulW]

For a mechanical a tranny like 700r4/AOD compared to a modern electrically controlled tranny the gain is huge.
Newer is better for sure. I strongly recommend getting up to speed for a newer tranny.
Compared to the radio electronics the auto tranny electrics is pretty simple.

For a trailer rig then a c6 or t400 will always be the best because the OD is never needed.

[Phoenix0783]

What about putting the 4r70w guts in a AOD case with a transgo kit? They'll fit right in and you can find them in Explorers all over the place

[philofab]

What about putting the 4r70w guts in a AOD case with a transgo kit? They'll fit right in and you can find them in Explorers all over the place

4R70W and AOD-E are the same thing. The naming convention just changed due to SAE standards. I believe the major difference is actually the case as the later transmissions had solenoid controls. Parts from later transmissions can be retrofitted into early non electronic cases to make them a little stronger, but you still end up with a transmission that doesn't seem to like desert use that much.

Overdrive isn't needed if you just run higher gears... and the cost savings from running a cheaper non OD transmission will make a lot of horsepower & torque.

[Phoenix0783]

4R70W and AOD-E are the same thing. The naming convention just changed due to SAE standards. I believe the major difference is actually the case as the later transmissions had solenoid controls.

I thought they have different gear ratios?

[philofab]

4R70W and AOD-E are the same thing. The naming convention just changed due to SAE standards. I believe the major difference is actually the case as the later transmissions had solenoid controls.

I thought they have different gear ratios?

First and Second are different due to changing a planetary. The panetary can be swapped for desired gear ratio the same way you can put an E4OD/4R100 planetary in a C6 for better ratios.

[Wrightracing.net]

I put almost $6000 into my 99 f350 with a 7.3L. The over heating was a on going issue when towing up long grades and in deep sand. That is a 8000lbs truck. I had a tranny failure on San Telmo Road during a Baja race. That was the reason I did not spare any expense. There was not much oem internals after all that.

I don't really want to spend that on the Bronco. My main concern is over heating the tranny. The idea to run a Overdrive was to make it nicer when We do night runs out to the desert, no trailer, just a last minute bomb run in the middle of the night.

Are there any shorter OD units like the gear vendor you have seen used on a Bronco?

[cs_drums]

I think the E4OD gets more greef than it deserves. They can be built just cost more than the more common 3 speeds. The aftermarket units don't make sense to me cause the cost as much as a built OD unit. I think be the time you adapt a different OD tranny or a aftermarket unit you will have spent the same amount as building a solid E4OD that will bolt in.

I don't have a ton of miles on mine but I have yet to have issues with mine in dirt, rocks, sand etc. on days in the high 90*s. Stock with punisher and CBR cooler. When it does go I'm getting it built.

[philofab]

Are there any shorter OD units like the gear vendor you have seen used on a Bronco?

Not really. The gear vendor needs to have a VSS controller to work ok, and at minimum a relay to stop it from engaging in reverse if you manually control it. I had one in my 86 F250 and I took it out in favor of taller gears.

Heat is made by the torque converter. The more power and weight you have the tighter it needs to be. I have never had issues with the E4OD in my 96 F250 and I towed a lot with it. It lasted almost 200K without being rebuilt and I had it rebuilt when it started throwing slip codes.

You seem to be avoiding the cheap and easy option. Tall gears, tight converter, and a cheap C6.

[philofab]

BTW, a manual ZF5 or M5R2 can be had for $400 or so and will give you OD for cheap with more reliability and less heat than an automatic.

[BDKW1]

And you'd still have an AOD...

Sorry, but I hate those POS's with a passion!

That makes 2 of us. Friggen boat anchors.

[Wrightracing.net]

Philofab: I am not sure on your Gear Vendor, but the one on my Motor Home does not have a VSS and it works great.

As for the manual trans. No thanks.

As for the C6, I have one and it works great off road but with 35" tires 4.88 gears on the highway, the RPM's run a bit high for freeway use.

I may just have to stretch the Bronco to run a Gear Vendor.
haha

I can justify the extra work to combat global warming by using less gas on the freeway out to the desert.

[philofab]

The gear vendor will self destruct if engaged while in reverse. My truck had a VSS switch to turn it on and off but without any load sensing it was lame.

Why not switch to 4.11 to get what you want? 4.88 is really low for small tires like 35s.

[Wrightracing.net]

Had 4.11's and the power to the wheel's is much better with 4.88. Not worth going back. I drove the Bronco as a daily driver for 10 years with 4.11, 35" tires and the AOD. In the dirt the new setup C6, 4.88 and 35" tires is much better.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is my Bronco is 90% dirt 10% street use.

The whole question was geared to an alternative to the AOD or Gear Vendor. In my case it was to see a good way to get an overdrive for those few time's I jumped on the freeway.