400 ford

[Ford 4 US]

I was just wondering if anyone has sunk cash into a 400???.?.
With any success.......
I guess I should have asked this question before... Caus I'm about to pick mine up
We will see what happens.... Arrrrrg
Anyone been down this road before
Ya got to love tuition... But I don't think I'll ever learn ....ha

[ChaseTruck754]

check the motor forums on ford-trucks.com

There are a few guys over there that love the things for some odd reason.

If you can fix the oiling problems they have they may be a decent motor.

[Ford 4 US]

Thx
I will... I did spend more time than I would care to admit researching different things when I started down this path.... We will see. I just wanted to keep the c6 and 205 set up
But I am sure a 460 would have been a quick fix for power.
Again tuition some times isn't cheep

[ChaseTruck754]

sure 460's are the quick fix for power, but they're also quick at emptying your pockets when you go to fill them up. They can't pass a gas station without stopping.

[Rmc]

From the reading I was doing get an allign bore, stock crank, have the bearing journals polished, re-assemble bottom end. Have the factory valve seats ground. Put a cam and a victor senior style single plenum intake. Flat top pistons and a set of full length headers with a 650cfm or 750cfm and your looking at around 418hp with big torque numbers for around 1200$. In the build they used a petronix electronic trigger in place of points and it was good to go. It was on an episode of hptv as I recall or hotrod junkyard builds I can't remember. Ill grab a link if you would like.

[Rmc]

The main point of the article was saying its an uncommon starting platform for easy cheap hp.

[Rmc]

Here's a 500hp build up, 6800$ unfortunately but that package has decent potential.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ewall.html

[Ford 4 US]

Thx...
Looked at those
As I am sure u all know started this deal like ......hell just throw a cam in it with an intake
600cfm and rock. Bra hahahahah
Shit a few beers and a few hours on summit racing and the Wife says WTF is with the credit card statement .......
Damn seats,shocks,motor,trans,eng,tires,fab,ect,ect
And the front axle isn't even in it.......
Yeeeee haaaaaa
Arrrrrrg
Some day

[Rmc]

Get a bb c6 and your ready for race day. A 1450 dude I was talking to was saying he blew up 3 351s because he was trying to use hp in place of torque. The gears and tires mixed with constant inturupted load was a bad combo in his case. I don't know all the details but he was saying since he went BB no more issues. He even said the old attage in our conversation " there's no replacement for displacement" so according to him thirsty but very reliable.

[300]

The 400 and the 460 share the same bellhousing pattern, so that part bolts together.

Of the dozen or more 400's I have had or driven, two failed on the bottom end and a third just plain failed catastrophically (no water). All were high mileage stockers. The one that I built with new bearings and high volume oil pump is still running. Can't recall if there were any other modifications to the oil system on that one. The cubic inches are there and the heads have pretty decent sized ports and valves but they just never seemed to run as well as they seemed they should have. Would like to have seen what one would have done with a really good dual plane manifold. Had one in a 3/4 ton work truck that was supposedly built. I know it had a 4bbl, single plane manifold and headers. It would make all kinds of noise and rev, but it was certainly nothing special to drive and did not have the torque you would think it would. I actually much preferred the torque and driveability of the old 360 or 390 series engines.

[ChaseTruck754]

yup. I'd take an FE before the 400 or 351m any day

[Wrightracing.net]

What motor is the Moss Race Bronco running?

[retroblazer]

Windsor

[ChaseTruck754]

Good point. I'd take a windsor before an FE!

[AussieRod]

I gonna weigh into the 400 Clevo debate. (Yes I call it a Clevland, because thats what it is, a 351C block stretched 1.1") There are many stories about the oiling problems the 335 engine family has, and having raced them for many years I am stuffed if I have EVER had an oiling problem. I have drag raced, circuit raced, street raced and boat raced them to over 8000 rpm on the factory crank and rods and I have NEVER blown an engine. I do NOT nor have I EVER used restrictors, bypass hoses or any other fancy do-dads, like 100 psi pressure springs etc.
However, this engine family (in automotive use) has 2 glaring problems that many are not aware of. The first is that the large cylinder heads have very poor oil drain back and oil takes its sweet time returning to the oil pan. Many restrict oil flow to the valvetrain to combat this, but that creates another vicious circle. The valve springs NEED this volume of oil for cooling. Yes, COOLING the valve springs. Restrict the oil flow to the top end, the springs overheat and loose tension, and the engine looses revs fast to valve float. The other problem is that many cars (and trucks) fitted with these engines have small oil pans ( 7 - 9 quarts) and it's not unusual to have 5 - 6 quarts of oil loose in the valve covers trying to drain back. On top of this, the factory oil pump is capable of emptying the std oil pan completely at 4000rpm, so it's easy to see why oil problems can occur. Conbine that with maintainence ignorant owners who never check the oil and when the engine goes a quart or two down, goodbye bearings from the oil pan running dry at 2500 rpm.
So what do I do that makes my engines live? 2 - 3 thou bearing clearances, drilling the oil drianbacks out from 1/2" to 5/8" and use a die grinder to smooth out the drain area to help the oil on its way, I use a minimum 7 litre (10 quart) oil pan or bigger if space permits and I only use Melling HV oil pumps with a factory pressure spring. For drag, road race and boat racing, I weld drain back tubes into the valve covers and run 1" bore hose front and rear down to the oil pan to speed the oil return as much as possible.
My last build was a 400, factory 8:1 with 2V small chamber heads, Crower hydraulic cam, Holley Street Dominator and 750 DP, with headers (330 HP @ 5100 & 420 lbs / ft from 2200 to 4000) in a full body 70's Falcon sedan ran 13 secs dead on road radials (not cheater tyres) with the stock convertor, auto (C6) and 3.9:1 gears and would easily spin the tyres on the chassis dyno at full throttle. I still have the engine (in pieces) and have been contemplating fitting it to the F truck after rego with an AOD adapter.

[Rmc]

Great insight Rod, I know I learned something. Thx for the info.

[Agui-E7TE]

I had a 351M in my Bronco and it was great until it started losing pushrods after I replaced the timing chain that had failed and didn't remember to change the oil filter. Bearings spun and it began to sound like a diesel and I had to replace pushrods at least every other week.

I swapped in a 460 out of an '86 F250 (which I had rebuilt first) and it was instantly way better. The 351M had a mild cam in it as well as long tube headers and it sounded mean. The 460 sounds pretty quiet and tame but it hauls butt no problem. Tires are 35x12.5R15 Pit Bull Rockers and it has a C6 and 4.56 gears. I don't know how high the RPMs are on the highway but I'd rather not know. It will pull up a 6% grade without getting into the throttle too much and it runs really cool and has even survived driving from Santa Barbara to Lompoc (through the mountain road with no fan belt. Temperature only got up to 220 degrees but that was doing 75+ for a while on the 101.

The 351M got a best of 10-11 mpg when I had it but the 460 gets 7.1 mpg average no matter how slow or hard I drive it. The torque is awesome though, especially considering my engine is pretty well stock other than a high rise manifold and a 770 CFM Holley Truck Avenger and MSD ignition.

[Ford 4 US]

Thanks for all the great info
I'll let you know how it goes
If anything iv got a lot of stickers for the garage fridge

[MOSS2]

I gonna weigh into the 400 Clevo debate. (Yes I call it a Clevland, because thats what it is, a 351C block stretched 1.1") There are many stories about the oiling problems the 335 engine family has, and having raced them for many years I am stuffed if I have EVER had an oiling problem. I have drag raced, circuit raced, street raced and boat raced them to over 8000 rpm on the factory crank and rods and I have NEVER blown an engine. I do NOT nor have I EVER used restrictors, bypass hoses or any other fancy do-dads, like 100 psi pressure springs etc.
However, this engine family (in automotive use) has 2 glaring problems that many are not aware of. The first is that the large cylinder heads have very poor oil drain back and oil takes its sweet time returning to the oil pan. Many restrict oil flow to the valvetrain to combat this, but that creates another vicious circle. The valve springs NEED this volume of oil for cooling. Yes, COOLING the valve springs. Restrict the oil flow to the top end, the springs overheat and loose tension, and the engine looses revs fast to valve float. The other problem is that many cars (and trucks) fitted with these engines have small oil pans ( 7 - 9 quarts) and it's not unusual to have 5 - 6 quarts of oil loose in the valve covers trying to drain back. On top of this, the factory oil pump is capable of emptying the std oil pan completely at 4000rpm, so it's easy to see why oil problems can occur. Conbine that with maintainence ignorant owners who never check the oil and when the engine goes a quart or two down, goodbye bearings from the oil pan running dry at 2500 rpm.
So what do I do that makes my engines live? 2 - 3 thou bearing clearances, drilling the oil drianbacks out from 1/2" to 5/8" and use a die grinder to smooth out the drain area to help the oil on its way, I use a minimum 7 litre (10 quart) oil pan or bigger if space permits and I only use Melling HV oil pumps with a factory pressure spring. For drag, road race and boat racing, I weld drain back tubes into the valve covers and run 1" bore hose front and rear down to the oil pan to speed the oil return as much as possible.
My last build was a 400, factory 8:1 with 2V small chamber heads, Crower hydraulic cam, Holley Street Dominator and 750 DP, with headers (330 HP @ 5100 & 420 lbs / ft from 2200 to 4000) in a full body 70's Falcon sedan ran 13 secs dead on road radials (not cheater tyres) with the stock convertor, auto (C6) and 3.9:1 gears and would easily spin the tyres on the chassis dyno at full throttle. I still have the engine (in pieces) and have been contemplating fitting it to the F truck after rego with an AOD adapter.

Well that is interesting. They don't have an oiling problem but you have some must do fixes for the oiling. I ran into that oil drainback problem on my real Cleveland in my Mustang. If you ran it between 5 and 6000 rpm for five minutes or so it would starve it and lifters would start clattering. Lucky there were not that many roads to hold it open that long on and it didn't ever come apart. It had the Melling HV pump 4v small chambers, Edelbrock torker, Holley 750DP, 10.7:1 Crane RV cam. Had more low end and ran better than any 400M I have driven since. Course it was lighter and 4sp with low gears.

[Ford 4 US]

When it was torn down in had a cracked head
Found some 2v cleavland heads, mild cam, performer intake, decked the blocked,
Balanced, 600 carb, about 9 to 1..
I really don't want to rev it but u know... Just to impress the kids....
Headers, looking for low end torque... Broader C6' np205, bla bla...
Any other suggestions please post up...