Race radios

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Nick
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Race radios

Post by Nick »

What are you running? And why?

I've got an icom f121 with mag mount antena. I also run a 40 chanel cb for just in case.
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Re: Race radios

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Some info from the weaterman, taken from the pci website. Part 1
Weatherman Speaks

Communications for the Baja 1000
September 25, 2006


SATURATION/NOISE POLLUTION
Introduction: An Analogy

You and I are alone in Staples Center at opposite ends of the auditorium. We can talk to each other in a normal tone of voice.

Now more people enter the auditorium and start talking. For you and I to continue our conversation, we either have to shout, or move closer together.

Now the auditorium is full and the Los Angeles Lakers tie the game. If we're more than a few rows apart, we can't hear each other unless we yell.

The Lakers win the championship. Pandemonium breaks out and saturation occurs. We can't hear each other from more than a few feet apart.

In this analogy, voice equals frequency. Some voices are bass, some alto, and some soprano; but none are exactly the same. Shouting is power output. Hearing is the quality of the receiver's sensitivity and selectivity, and moving closer together is range. Remember - frequency, power, receiver sensitivity and selectivity, and range.


FREQUENCY SATURATION AND LOSS OF RANGE: THE LONG VERSION

Part I. Interference

There are many factors contributing to lack of range besides faulty installation or improperly mounted and tuned antenna.


•A. Co-channel Interference. This comes from other users on your own channel, even if you can't hear them clearly or they're "in the dirt". They lessen your range compared to a clear channel.


•B. Willful or Unintentional Interference. This is where someone keys up on top of your signal, either willfully or inadvertently, by not monitoring before transmitting.


•C. Adjacent Channel Interference. Channels that are next to yours bleeding over - particularly when they are running between bands. For example, you are on 151.925. The next frequency down is 151.910 and the next frequency up is 151.940. If someone is illegally running on 151.920 or 151.930, they can produce adjacent channel interference, particularly if their modulation is set too high. The 15 kilohertz between channels is a protection against adjacent channel interference. Amplifiers are the biggest problem with regard to bleedover.


•D. Intermodulation Interference. This is where two or more frequencies combine to form a frequency product that spatters your frequency. This is the worst kind of interference as it is extremely hard to track down. Noise pollution, or even saturation, occurs when your receiver becomes choked with unwanted signal and is lessening your range considerably.

Part II. Frequency

Dirty transmitters that produce spatter on other frequencies cause noise pollution and contribute to saturation. All transmitters should be looked at with a spectrum analyzer to make sure they are clean. However, spectrum analyzers are very expensive and not every radio shop has one, let alone the two-steppers who have no service equipment.

Now put a cheap $200.00 amplifier on a cheap radio and create a radio-jamming device that can take out a half mile of pit communications. This is noise pollution at its worst. This is one of the problems that you can do something about, as amplifiers are illegal in SCORE's rule book: CR52.

Part III. Receivers

What constitutes a good receiver? First let's talk about a great receiver - one that can be used in communications sites on mountaintops with an antenna farm on towers and many radios operating within a single building. Would any radio used in off-road, even with proper external filters work under these conditions? Only the Kenwood TK790 - PCI's Power Source Radio. There may be exceptions to this, but extremely few.

Now if we don't pay $1250.00 to $3000.00 for a great receiver, where do we draw the line? Let's say we draw it at $350.00, and say that anything under that price is missing a whole lot of parts. Unfortunately, most of these are receiver parts - receiver crystal filters and filtration at all the intermediary frequencies.

You get what you pay for, and here we can directly correlate cheap = lost range.

I acquired a trade-in of an ICOM V8000 amateur band radio that had been expanded to work in the commercial band. Its performance on the Weatherman relay in helping any team on any frequency was pitiful. Most of the time, because of noise pollution, I couldn't hear replies directed to me and had to ask the team to switch to the Weatherman frequency. At times the signal strength bar graph was full strength but no signal could be heard. I couldn't even open the squelch.

I personally took apart and examined two ICOM radios. One was the amateur band radio that had been illegally expanded to work in the commercial band - the model V8000. It had a one-sided printed circuit board. The other ICOM was a commercial band model IC-F121. It had a double-sided PC board and almost twice the number of parts, mostly the more expensive receiver parts that include the filtering of all the intermediary frequencies prior to your final output frequency. These components are required for sensitivity and selectivity so the radio can distinguish between wanted and unwanted signals.

One of those radios sells for $189.00 and the other for $349.00. The $189.00 radio is FCC type accepted under part 15 of the rules, i.e. the amateur band. Its manufacturer's tag specifically states, "This device must accept any interference received, including interference that might cause undesired operation." The $349.00 one is type accepted in the commercial band where a much higher performance is required.

I now use two PCI Power Source Kenwoods - model TK790 - 160 channel radios to cover the frequencies being used in off-road racing.

Part IV. Stuck Mikes

If your push-to-talk switch is the least bit sticky or stays pushed at times, or if your coil cord is old and stretched, buy a new mike. They are cheap compared to someone's life or limb that could be lost because your transmitter was stuck in the "on" position.

Proper mike hang-up brackets should be used at all times. If you don't have one, hang the mike over the ash try. NEVER lay it on your lap, armrest, or on the seat or floor. No one wants to be a Richard Cranium! Realize that the Weatherman channel is extremely busy, so if you don't hear anything on your radio, you could be stuck in transmit mode. Watch your 'busy' and 'transmit' lights. That's what they're for.

If you want to be absolutely sure to not stick on a transmitter, then open your squelch and enjoy the sound of the ocean while expanding your receiver's range by a whole lot.

If you are a spectator or leave your kids unattended, unplug your mike.

If you're a 'skitzo' with personality disorders and like to play on the radio - while your good side is in control make the decision to leave your mike at home.

Part V. Score Rule CR52

CR52 - Radio Equipment: No radio equipment in any race vehicle or support vehicle is permitted to transmit on any frequency allotted to the amateur radio band, public service band, marine band, aircraft band, and any frequency that the FCC considers illegal. All radio equipment must transmit and receive on frequencies that the equipment was designed for. No outboard linear amplifiers with an output over 25 watts. An outboard linear amplifier is a device attached between the radio and the antenna that boosts the power of the radio. Rule GL8 in its entirety is included in this rule.

Part VI. Satellite Phone Use

Satellite phone communications have also become saturated during races. A satellite phone orbiting gateway can handle only a very limited number of calls at the same time. As with your radio transmitter, think before pushing the 'send' button. On race day, use the satellite phone for essential race-related calls only! A chase truck at pit 8 doesn't need to know if the race vehicle went through checkpoints one, two, or three. And, please, no personal calls during race time.

Part VII. Back to the Analogy - What Have We Learned?

Now imagine that the Baja 1000 is a very expanded Staples Center. Remember:
•Frequency = individual voice

•Power = shouting to be heard

•Hearing = receiver sensitivity and selectivity

•Range = moving closer together to be heard.

Frequency: On your pre-run, make sure your frequency is a clean one. During the race, avoid any non-essential transmissions. If your transmission isn't acknowledged, transmit your message and repeat it after a few minutes.

Power: Know your transmitter is clean (no spurious frequencies). Make sure your installation is correct.

•Check that you have adequate 10 or 12 gauge wire to the positive and negative terminals of the battery.

•Your antenna should be mounted with a proper ground plane and with no metal interference above the bottom of the antenna.

Do not use an amplifier!
•It's against the rules.

•It causes your receiver to be less sensitive by 5% to 50%.

•Amplifiers are the worst offenders with regard to noise pollution.

Receiver Sensitivity and Selectivity: Expanded amateur band radios do not have the selectivity of hearing on the intended frequency. They are prone to all types of interference and, during a race, are putting you and your team to a big disadvantage when compared to a commercial band radio. To be more frank, they are crippling the overall race communications.

Range: To maximize your range, pay attention to these factors:

•Be sure your equipment is properly installed.

•Choose the best location to transmit from or hear from while waiting. Avoid canyons and low spots.

•Use a gain antenna.

•Have your vehicle running to supply the proper voltage to your radio when transmitting.

USING THE WEATHERMAN RELAY

When using Weatherman to expand your range, make sure you are on a legal frequency. I will not relay on between-band frequencies.

Remember the principles of good communication: who, why, where, what, and when.


•Who: The first words you speak should be the car number you're referring to, then your vehicle number if different, then your name. "1625, chase 3, Jimmy".

•Why: Clearly and briefly state why you're calling Weatherman. "I need a relay" or "Our car is stuck".
•Where: Identify where you need assistance or the location (frequency) of the person you need to contact. "To 1625, Chase 1, Bob," or "Race mile 52.5 (or GPS coordinates)".

•What: State specifically what you need. "I need two tires," or "I need a tow strap."

•When: The answer to this should be "Right now". If it isn't urgent and necessary, you shouldn't be calling Weatherman.


If you have questions, e-mail me at weatherman@pciraceradios.com and I will post your question and its answer on "THE WEATHERMAN SPEAKS".
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Re: Race radios

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Part 2.
Race Radio Etiquette
Experienced Off Road Race tams have learned that reliable 2 way radio communications provide an edge in finishing a race. The ability to instantly transmit a trouble call to a chase vehicle or the pit crew saves valuable time. In many cases it may make the difference between a DNF and success at the finish line.

The increased popularity of VHF 2 way radio support on the race circuit creates its own set of problems. This article is intended to deal with the subject of radio ABUSE. Let’s face it, with FCC regulations and a limited number of frequencies, there is no choice left, airtime must be shared.

COMMON ABUSES
“Motor mouth” … they’re not popular at a party, let alone on a radio. This is the guy that likes to hear himself talk and talk and talk. It could be idle chit-chat that makes a person a motor mouth. The business of conducting a race is far too important to support a casual conversation on the airwaves… IMPORTANT RULE K.I.S.S. (Keep it short, stupid.)

“Channel Grabber” When your team or car is out of the race and there’s no chance to finish, the value of your radio use needs to take a second seat. The emergency has ended. Let the people that need air time have it. Wait for lulls or breaks to coordinate your “haul ‘em home” activities. I can’t count the number of times I have heard emergency radio transmissions of contenders being walked over by non-contenders. Most of the time, it is a request for information that could wait for a break in the race. Pleas put yourself in the other guy’s shoes.

“Hey good buddy… you out there?” There are a lot of good buddies using a radio in a race. The team that comes on the air and says “Mobil 1 to Mobil 2” is asking for trouble. Proper I.D. of your team and crew members is vital. “Race 7 to Pit 7” is clear and concise. It leaves no doubt in others in others minds as to who is calling who. A name and your car number is an excellent identifier. The bottom-line… it eliminates confusion and having to talk to people you didn’t call in the first place.

“Answer the phone @*%&#*$!” How many times do you let a phone ring if there is no answer? The guy who lets it ring 50 times is an idiot. The ding dong that gets on the radio and keeps yelling a unit number when its obvious that they can’t get back to him is a hazard to everyone’s mental health including his own team. Consider the poor driver whose frustration builds as he tries to answer a call but is over rough ground, behind a hill, or out of transmission range, but still able to hear. Call you unit and state your message and assume you are heard, or try again at a later time.


“Radio Check… Radio Check… can anyone give me a radio check?” “Read you 5 x 5 loud and clear,” says the guy in the car right next to him. Big Deal, that’s not a valid test of your radio and it wastes valuable airtime. Be a good listener… it will benefit you as well. If you hear a vehicle that you know is several miles ahead of or behind you, and you answer his radio check, you have both verified that your transmitter, receiver and antenna are in proper working shape. If you need a preliminary check, do it before the race by sending a chase vehicle up the course a few miles so that you get valid results. The best way to ask for a radio check is “Radio check from Ensenada.” A helpful response would be “Copy radio check from Horsepower.”

Be Professional… try to have your best people using the radio; try to use the same person on each set in the early stages of the race for the sake of consistency.

Refuse to communicate with anyone not using a positive I.D. that ties them to the race. While broadcasting misleading or erroneous messages is a violation of the FCC rules, subterfuge goes on. Know who you are listening to… that information could be vital and useful, anything else could be detrimental to your racing effort.

Two Can’t Tango on a 2 way radio. If you want to talk, but someone s “motor mouthing” it serves no useful purpose to grab the mic and yell at him. While he’s talking he can’t hear you. On top of that, two transmitters going at the same time just creates even more noise for everyone else. If there is a stuck mic, it does absolutely NO good for you to get on the radio and tell someone or make comments about it.

Conserving and managing airtime is what it’s all about. Please read the “Weatherman Speaks, Baja 1000 Communications” or read the long version for more details on this, but remember every extra radio out there transmitting cuts down someone else’s range, including the Weatherman. If you don’t need to be on the radio, don’t be.

A properly tuned and adjusted radio is like a well-oiled engine. It will get the job done and help get you out of a crisis and over the finish line. Have your local dealer check your equipment.

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Re: Race radios

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Part 3.
Weatherman Speaks

The Degradation of Racing Communications
October 16, 2006


The Culprit: Outboard Amplifiers
(Boosters, Linears, etc.)

Years ago, a customer brought me a Trilectric amplifier he was using on an old Regency radio - an 18 watt input for an 80 watt output. On the spectrum analyzer it looked like a Russian radar-jamming device, putting out power on all frequencies. It had no tuning points, so I spread the output coils until it put out power on the selected frequency. The customer said I was a genius! I then varied the voltage from 13.8 to 12 volts and back came the Russians. The customer watched as I destroyed the amp.
At a San Felipe SCORE Race, SCORE's communications on 151.625 at Start/Finish were so screwed up by a team on 150.xxx that the race team was instructed to bypass the amplifier before their truck was allowed to leave the line. This was when SCORE saw the problem first-hand and implemented rule CR52. This rule states, in part: "No outboard linear amplifiers with an output over 25 watts. An outboard linear amplifier is a device attached between the radio and the antenna that boosts the power of the radio."

Since the time that SCORE Rule CR52 was put into effect, radio use at races has increased exponentially, and so has the noise pollution created by so many radios being used at one time in so small an area.

Amplifiers walk all over everyone's communications. Unlike an integrated, stand-alone 110 watt radio (maximum power allowed), the piggy-backing of an amplifier magnifies all the bad aspects of a cheap radio. Cheap radios and cheap amplifiers are made with the minimum number and quality of components to get the job done. These radios are made for non-essential business communications or freeway caravanning. Equipment not characterized for the service under which it is being used is a waste of money. It's like using a boy to do a man's job.

At PCI, we have always done our part to provide the Weatherman Relay, to coordinate frequencies and keep the airwaves clutter-free, refusing to install or relay on an illegal frequency. We are now asking that you do your part to keep racing communications clean. If you are using an amplifier, STOP. If you are considering purchasing one, DON'T! If you know anyone using one, talk them out of it! Don't forget that their amplifier could mean your safety in a life-or-death situation. Don't let others put you at more risk than you should be. As a last resort, invoke Rule CR52. They might only get a warning the first time, but after that it is DQ time. Remember the race entrant is responsible for verifying that his support team is compliant with rule CR 52.


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Re: Race radios

Post by tcm glx »

Running a kenwood TM 271. Got it cause the reviews on it are great, and its affordable! So far I love it. Ran an ICOM before and kept having microphone issues.
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Re: Race radios

Post by bajascott »

i have an icom2100 and carry an extra mic......im looking for a different radio but havnt decided on which one yet.
but i have been happy with the one i have.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Nick »

So who's gonna man up and admit to having the Weatherman disapproved, and much hated icom v8000?
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Re: Race radios

Post by bajascott »

mine is the older brother to the v8000. and yes it is moded.......(.)(.)
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Re: Race radios

Post by PBR »

i have 3 v8000 and love them! can't beat them for the price and they work great.
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Re: Race radios

Post by tcm glx »

Hey Nick, what's the story on the weatherman hating these, I have never heard it.

I had the icom 2200 I think, it worked well other than the mic issues. The one thing that took me to the kenwood was that my brother always ran the kenwood, and he seemed to always have a bit more reach than I did, when I ran the icom.
Nick wrote:So who's gonna man up and admit to having the Weatherman disapproved, and much hated icom v8000?
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Re: Race radios

Post by bajascott »

one reason Bob doesnt like them is the fact that anyone can use them, most of the freq's are "owned" by teams. with an fcc license.
modded radios are illeagal,according to the FCC
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Re: Race radios

Post by philofab »

I have a V8000 and I have a great range of receive and transmit. I've had to relay for people with less powerful radios during races. Seems to be a solid unit and I have not had problems other than it is complicated.

One reason Weatherman hates these because they bleed into other channels and can cause interference issues. PCI would not program mine so I another company program it during contingency.
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Re: Race radios

Post by gunit »

I have several radios

2 Kenwood TK 790 110w
4 Roadmaster 50w
1 Icom F121
1 Kenwood TK 271A so that I have user programmable capabilities

Over all, the old standby Roadmasters are my favorite.
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Re: Race radios

Post by SteveG »

I have a V8000 too and love it. It does every thing I need it to and I can punch in a frequency at will with no extra equipment.

I'm don't pretend to know ANYTHING about radios. I can turn mine on and talk to other people on the same frequency.... Everything PCI says makes sense, but I have yet to use mine on race day, so really, does it apply to me? Back several years ago even the boys at PCI said user programmable radios were OK for weekend warriors at small races without a lot of (radio) traffic. The radio of choice at smaller, domestic races seems to be a cell phone....

For a race truck, I think a simple and robust radio is the way to go. The fewer buttons the better.
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Re: Race radios

Post by bajascott »

we ran the v8000 in our 1450 truck,set the freq,plugged in the helmets and off we went. but they are not a sealed unit.
years ago we ran motarola in our 5/16 car as well as our 9 car.and we used rlh comm for our radio needs.
bob hines is the one who turn us on to the icom unit in the mid 90's.i am not much of a radio guy either , i just wanna turn it on and talk.i hate programming freq's but once they are in set the memory its a sinch!
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Re: Race radios

Post by 7D6F250 »

I bought PCI's chase package back in 07' before the Baja 1K. I thought it worked great. Used it for test trips to Barstow, BITD Funrun 08' , and Vegas to Reno.
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Re: Race radios

Post by BajaBronco13 »

This is my first race radio, it's a Kenwood TM271:

Image

Image

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Re: Race radios

Post by 95_Bronco »

I was looking at this little set up i havent seen any reviews on it yet though...any input

http://helmetkits.com/RADIOS/Icom-F121- ... rod_8.html
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Re: Race radios

Post by gunit »

A whole bunch of us have the Icom 121 and they work fine. The only draw back I find is the squelch, I prefer the knob with fine adjustments. The external speaker is a nice addition.
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Re: Race radios

Post by philofab »

gunit wrote:A whole bunch of us have the Icom 121 and they work fine. The only draw back I find is the squelch, I prefer the knob with fine adjustments. The external speaker is a nice addition.
My Pioneer radio has a input for iPods and I hooked my V8000 up with a normal i-Pod cable... worked great. I could hear it from 30 ft away.
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