Race radios

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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

I like Vertex VX6000 110 watt VHF. If you are just talking car to car, a smaller radio is ok, but does not cut it in Baja.
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PaulW
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Re: Race radios

Post by PaulW »

Wrightracing.net wrote:I like Vertex VX6000 110 watt VHF. If you are just talking car to car, a smaller radio is ok, but does not cut it in Baja.
=
Why does the 100 w unit cost more than the 110?
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Re: Race radios

Post by tvoymang »

Wrightracing.net wrote:I like Vertex VX6000 110 watt VHF. If you are just talking car to car, a smaller radio is ok, but does not cut it in Baja.
Just curious....

What test equipment do you use to check deviation, frequency error, rf power output and receiver? What are you using to tune your antennas?

Thanks,
Chris
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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

PaulW wrote:
Wrightracing.net wrote:I like Vertex VX6000 110 watt VHF. If you are just talking car to car, a smaller radio is ok, but does not cut it in Baja.
=
Why does the 100 w unit cost more than the 110?
I am not sure on that one Paul. Which two model's and makes are you talking about.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

tvoymang wrote:
Wrightracing.net wrote:I like Vertex VX6000 110 watt VHF. If you are just talking car to car, a smaller radio is ok, but does not cut it in Baja.
Just curious....

What test equipment do you use to check deviation, frequency error, rf power output and receiver? What are you using to tune your antennas?

Thanks,
Chris
Hey Chris
I use a RF Spectrum Analyzer, RF signal generator and a old Oscilloscope.

I don't do installation work, but for myself and friends I use a MFJ SWR/RF power meter.

I would love to get a all in one HP communications analyzer but the prices start pretty high.

I am self taught and do basic realignment and testing. I started this by getting used radios for friends that could not afford a $1200 + radio in their trucks to help at the races. I specialize in the Kenwood radios and do it just as a side job.
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Re: Race radios

Post by agavelouis »

Wrightracing.net wrote:There is nothing wrong with running the TK730H. Tons of people are running them and they are almost bullet proof. I do repairs and refurbish radios for the guys at Solo MotorSports and a bunch of other teams. The main repairs are external stuff that gets trashed, do to poor installation and poor prep. The main radio units are solid, yet the weak link is the Molex connectors.

The guys at PCI are great, but they will of course recommend new radios, that is what they are there for, to make money.

For a piece of mind, you should check the radio out on a power meter for proper output. Also, the Molex power connector should be replaced with a Weather Pak connector. I would also recommend a RF noise suppressor on the radio. I like the Kenwood KLF-2 line suppressor. For the intercom, I replace that Molex connector with a metal mobile 5 pin connector like PCI uses on their race intercoms. On chase and pre-runner trucks I setup a second outside speaker so it can be used as a PA and then on the TK730H you can switch the radio audio outside, so you can leave the doors and windows shut while watching the race. When it comes to mounting the radio, the place should be away from heat sources like the passenger side under the seat, because of the exhaust and Cat. Also the trans tunnel gets hot and the firewall are not the best place. Under the drivers seat might work but depends on your Bronco. The best thing if you mount it on the floor is to use rubber mounts, like used for oil coolers. It keeps the radio off the ground in case you swamp the truck with water and lets the radio breath. The radios don't usually get hot, so it is not an issue.

On my Bronco, I am mounting the radio in a custom center console with layer of Dyno mat, to keep the heat out from the floor. Another place I have seen it mounted was to the cage on tabs on it's side behind the passenger door.

If you have any questions let me know.
I am going to argue a little with you here, since I am no longer a PCI tech and can't be lashed for it.

The reason PCI does not use or advise the use of the 730's is the programming interface and the equipment is old. The 730 has given me more trouble at races than a lot of newer equipment, hence why we try to opt towards it. There are some good ones left, but an ICOM 50watt will suffice for 90% of the racers out there and preform as good if not better in a lot of situations than the 730. A Kenwood or Vertex will do the same job, with Kenwood 7360 or similar being the best choice in a race car. Any closed cab vehicle will be fine with the ICOM.

Some/ most 730's are 32 channel, some being 16 channel, all of which do not have the military spec'ed mic of the 790H. The cat5 mic is susceptible to water, tear and abuse when used outside of its intended cop cars. It to my knowledge is not capable of running on the narrowband FCC mandated freq callout as of 1/1/13. What this means down the road is when the smaller Mhz jumps into the offroad freq list's is that your radio will not be capable of it. There are only so many race freq's available, and the next generation of freq's will start making their way into our sport, which this radio will not be capable of. The 730 also has little to no support from Kenwood left. Try tracking down a OEM power cable for it, let alone last minute in Baja. PCI can only get 790 cables now, and that is the only one you can buy off the trailer when you need it most.

The 790 is expensive, I agree there, but it is BETTER in every way than the 730's. PCI isn't striking it rich off the few that it sells a year. It also has 160 channels of memory so you can save all of your favorite teams frequency's
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Re: Race radios

Post by agavelouis »

Wrightracing.net wrote:I am self taught and do basic realignment and testing. I started this by getting used radios for friends that could not afford a $1200 + radio in their trucks to help at the races. I specialize in the Kenwood radios and do it just as a side job.
Very few teams need a $1500 radio in their car. You can find a 50watt $359 ICOM chase radio from PCI that will work great all day long. Most people I have run across with 110w kenwoods are not even using them to 60% of their potential.
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Re: Race radios

Post by tvoymang »

agavelouis wrote:
Wrightracing.net wrote:There is nothing wrong with running the TK730H. Tons of people are running them and they are almost bullet proof. I do repairs and refurbish radios for the guys at Solo MotorSports and a bunch of other teams. The main repairs are external stuff that gets trashed, do to poor installation and poor prep. The main radio units are solid, yet the weak link is the Molex connectors.

The guys at PCI are great, but they will of course recommend new radios, that is what they are there for, to make money.

For a piece of mind, you should check the radio out on a power meter for proper output. Also, the Molex power connector should be replaced with a Weather Pak connector. I would also recommend a RF noise suppressor on the radio. I like the Kenwood KLF-2 line suppressor. For the intercom, I replace that Molex connector with a metal mobile 5 pin connector like PCI uses on their race intercoms. On chase and pre-runner trucks I setup a second outside speaker so it can be used as a PA and then on the TK730H you can switch the radio audio outside, so you can leave the doors and windows shut while watching the race. When it comes to mounting the radio, the place should be away from heat sources like the passenger side under the seat, because of the exhaust and Cat. Also the trans tunnel gets hot and the firewall are not the best place. Under the drivers seat might work but depends on your Bronco. The best thing if you mount it on the floor is to use rubber mounts, like used for oil coolers. It keeps the radio off the ground in case you swamp the truck with water and lets the radio breath. The radios don't usually get hot, so it is not an issue.

On my Bronco, I am mounting the radio in a custom center console with layer of Dyno mat, to keep the heat out from the floor. Another place I have seen it mounted was to the cage on tabs on it's side behind the passenger door.

If you have any questions let me know.
I am going to argue a little with you here, since I am no longer a PCI tech and can't be lashed for it.

The reason PCI does not use or advise the use of the 730's is the programming interface and the equipment is old. The 730 has given me more trouble at races than a lot of newer equipment, hence why we try to opt towards it. There are some good ones left, but an ICOM 50watt will suffice for 90% of the racers out there and preform as good if not better in a lot of situations than the 730. A Kenwood or Vertex will do the same job, with Kenwood 7360 or similar being the best choice in a race car. Any closed cab vehicle will be fine with the ICOM.

Some/ most 730's are 32 channel, some being 16 channel, all of which do not have the military spec'ed mic of the 790H. The cat5 mic is susceptible to water, tear and abuse when used outside of its intended cop cars. It to my knowledge is not capable of running on the narrowband FCC mandated freq callout as of 1/1/13. What this means down the road is when the smaller Mhz jumps into the offroad freq list's is that your radio will not be capable of it. There are only so many race freq's available, and the next generation of freq's will start making their way into our sport, which this radio will not be capable of. The 730 also has little to no support from Kenwood left. Try tracking down a OEM power cable for it, let alone last minute in Baja. PCI can only get 790 cables now, and that is the only one you can buy off the trailer when you need it most.

The 790 is expensive, I agree there, but it is BETTER in every way than the 730's. PCI isn't striking it rich off the few that it sells a year. It also has 160 channels of memory so you can save all of your favorite teams frequency's
Uhhh interesting.... if thats the case.... it being old technology, then why does PCI push the "roadmaster" so hard? Id guess PCI sold the roadmaster because they were able to buy bulk at 50$ a radio. Resell for 500$ a piece and you got yourself a TT program off the pure profit of selling old outdated technology.

I do agree most people do not need a 110 watt radio.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

agavelouis wrote:
Wrightracing.net wrote:There is nothing wrong with running the TK730H. Tons of people are running them and they are almost bullet proof. I do repairs and refurbish radios for the guys at Solo MotorSports and a bunch of other teams. The main repairs are external stuff that gets trashed, do to poor installation and poor prep. The main radio units are solid, yet the weak link is the Molex connectors.

The guys at PCI are great, but they will of course recommend new radios, that is what they are there for, to make money.

For a piece of mind, you should check the radio out on a power meter for proper output. Also, the Molex power connector should be replaced with a Weather Pak connector. I would also recommend a RF noise suppressor on the radio. I like the Kenwood KLF-2 line suppressor. For the intercom, I replace that Molex connector with a metal mobile 5 pin connector like PCI uses on their race intercoms. On chase and pre-runner trucks I setup a second outside speaker so it can be used as a PA and then on the TK730H you can switch the radio audio outside, so you can leave the doors and windows shut while watching the race. When it comes to mounting the radio, the place should be away from heat sources like the passenger side under the seat, because of the exhaust and Cat. Also the trans tunnel gets hot and the firewall are not the best place. Under the drivers seat might work but depends on your Bronco. The best thing if you mount it on the floor is to use rubber mounts, like used for oil coolers. It keeps the radio off the ground in case you swamp the truck with water and lets the radio breath. The radios don't usually get hot, so it is not an issue.

On my Bronco, I am mounting the radio in a custom center console with layer of Dyno mat, to keep the heat out from the floor. Another place I have seen it mounted was to the cage on tabs on it's side behind the passenger door.

If you have any questions let me know.
I am going to argue a little with you here, since I am no longer a PCI tech and can't be lashed for it.

The reason PCI does not use or advise the use of the 730's is the programming interface and the equipment is old. The 730 has given me more trouble at races than a lot of newer equipment, hence why we try to opt towards it. There are some good ones left, but an ICOM 50watt will suffice for 90% of the racers out there and preform as good if not better in a lot of situations than the 730. A Kenwood or Vertex will do the same job, with Kenwood 7360 or similar being the best choice in a race car. Any closed cab vehicle will be fine with the ICOM.

Some/ most 730's are 32 channel, some being 16 channel, all of which do not have the military spec'ed mic of the 790H. The cat5 mic is susceptible to water, tear and abuse when used outside of its intended cop cars. It to my knowledge is not capable of running on the narrowband FCC mandated freq callout as of 1/1/13. What this means down the road is when the smaller Mhz jumps into the offroad freq list's is that your radio will not be capable of it. There are only so many race freq's available, and the next generation of freq's will start making their way into our sport, which this radio will not be capable of. The 730 also has little to no support from Kenwood left. Try tracking down a OEM power cable for it, let alone last minute in Baja. PCI can only get 790 cables now, and that is the only one you can buy off the trailer when you need it most.

The 790 is expensive, I agree there, but it is BETTER in every way than the 730's. PCI isn't striking it rich off the few that it sells a year. It also has 160 channels of memory so you can save all of your favorite teams frequency's
I will have to agree that having PCI at the race's is Nice.

As for problems with 730 radio's, I agree with the power cable and the Molex connectors are not that great, that is why I alway recommend changing them to Weather Pak for power and the round Mobile 5pin like the road master plug that PCI uses for the race intercoms. Most teams have Weather Pak kits so it is easier to find and replace than any radio power cable if needed.

Now the 790 being better in everyway, Bob has even said in the past there is not a big difference. I get it with the software. At the races it depends on who's working the trailer and if they will reprogram a 730. I have heard it has been hit and miss in the past. That is why I have a Laptop in my Pit Box and can do most Kenwoods and others.

As for the Narrow Band issue, The latest version of the Tk730 software let's the user set the radio to be narrow band legal according to the FCC rules. As for channel's, the Tk730 does have up to 32 as the stock configuration, yet a relatively cheap upgrade can go to 99 on a kch3 head and 160 on a kch4 head. Most people never even use the full 32 channels, so not an issue.

Racing in the US has changed alot do to no chase or remote pits. So in that case a 110 radio may not be needed. When in the hills and valleys of Baja it is must have. It is still not perfect, that is why most of us have a Sat phone for backup in a emergency. I have a couple friends with deep pockets running MSAT radios that have almost 99% coverage.


The radio's I have had the most problems with are older Motorola ones. Programming is highly problematic. I hate the radios that require a RIB (Radio interface Box). A single program serial cable or USB much better from my experience.

Now I like the TK790 and have worked on both, it is better in some ways just not worth the price. For many that off road in the mountains a 50 watt does not cut it and if the Job can be done with a lower cost alternative like the Tk730H with a remote head, it is a great option for many guy's out there.

That is just my 2 cents and opinions are like Farts, Some stink and some don't. :-)
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Re: Race radios

Post by agavelouis »

You would be hard pressed to get a roadmaster out of PCI now a days. I believe there was 2 left? When I left a year ago.

They were not a $50 radio that was resold for $500. They were / are a great working radio that were tough as nails.

The "dos" based programming for the 730 was a big hinderence and played a large part in it's demise I feel. I had quite a few heads stop communicating with the body, which was one of many upgrades to the 790h.

Not trying to be a butthead about all of this, but when it came down to it I worked my ass off fixing sub standard radios HOURS after every tech inspection closed. 50% of which PCI didn't sell, nor ever sold with competitors stickers all over them. When it came down to it, we had to turn those away first when it was time to leave because parking lots were closing and we were getting kicked out
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Re: Race radios

Post by philofab »

Louis is right, I have been one of those guys with an Icon V8000 or a Motorola Maratrec.

Louis, go finish your Bronco. We have a prerun coming soon! I gotta teach you how to drive a Bronco... lol.
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Re: Race radios

Post by agavelouis »

philofab wrote:Louis is right, I have been one of those guys with an Icon V8000 or a Motorola Maratrec.

Louis, go finish your Bronco. We have a prerun coming soon! I gotta teach you how to drive a Bronco... lol.

Alright alright!!! I've been burnt out this week. Been wiring helmets, tuning radios and making stickers has me kicked
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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

Never said anything about getting a Roadmaster. I did say to use the round Mobile 5 pin that was a Roadmaster mic plug like PCI still uses on intercoms to replace the Molex.

I know that you guy's work hard at the race's and over the years Scott and Bob have helped me and many others. I also know you see substandard radios as do I, all the time, but you can't categorize radio's not from PCI as such. At any time you can find 790 radios with the same problems the 730's have, usually do to poor prep and installation. Not by myself or PCI, but by some guy.

OK, I said my piece and that is that. Nothing personal ment by it, just showing options that many have had great results from.

Now I agree we need to be working on our Broncos. I hope to work on mine once my schedule allows.

Good luck on your project. It will be cool to see the build.
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Re: Race radios

Post by agavelouis »

Tvoymang mentioned the roadmaster, I just didn't quote it as it was getting pretty long.

My reference to inferior radios were not thrown at the 730, but rather the conglomerate of amateur band crap that shows up or the off brand commercial stuff that people expect to have the same backing as the real stuff. Hell, even the off model stuff from the big name brands.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

Funny. Ya I had a guy bring me a old Crystal GE VHF radio and wanted to add an intercom hookup and add channels the day before a race. Intercom was a go, but crystals, not so much.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Kartman »

I have an Icom 208h and Vertex something thats looks almost identical to the big Kenwood TT radios.

I prefer the 208 over the V8000 as the faceplate is remote and takes less space in the dash, as you can put the main radio elsewhere where space allows.

Same with the Vertex.

If you are mainly just listening get something cheap like a V8000 or 208 and disconnect the mike. If using it for chase or with a team spend a few extra bucks and get something higher quality
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Re: Race radios

Post by Becks_Bronco »

Does anyone have experience or opinions on the Kenwood D710G?

Pros (for me)
- 50W (plenty of power for trail runs and spectating)
- Remote Head unit
- Can program frequencies with the radio, no special software required
- GPS enabled.

Came highly recommended from a HAM radio nerd buddy.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Wrightracing.net »

I have always been happy with Kenwood radio's.
The problem is that the
D710G is a Ham radio and it has to be modified to
Transmit on RACE Frequencies. Also, the radio warranty is voided if it is modified. With Ham radio's on frequencies outside their intended range tend to bleed over on other frequencies causing problems for RACE day communications for other people. That is why I am not a fan of converted radio's.

Just my 2 cents
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Re: Race radios

Post by PaulW »

The latest favorite has to be the Yaseu FT2980R. Low cost with multiple transmit watts the highest being 80W. Giga Parts has all the associated needs including the MARS mod, Software for programming, antennas, etc.
They are very popular for chase as well as Jeep clubs mainly because of quality of the radio and excellent pricing. The MARS mod can be DIY, but for a plug an play I think it is a bargain. If there is any interest send me your email address and I will send you a sample of successful programing spreadsheet using the SW. MARS mod warranty included.
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Re: Race radios

Post by Becks_Bronco »

Wrightracing.net wrote:I have always been happy with Kenwood radio's.
The problem is that the
D710G is a Ham radio and it has to be modified to
Transmit on RACE Frequencies. Also, the radio warranty is voided if it is modified. With Ham radio's on frequencies outside their intended range tend to bleed over on other frequencies causing problems for RACE day communications for other people. That is why I am not a fan of converted radio's.

Just my 2 cents
A couple places (Ham Radio Outlet for example) offer MARS modification and will also offer extended warranty.

Will I really expect bleed over on a radio like Kenwood? I kind of expect that with something like a Baofeng, but I figured the kenwood would be quality enough to avoid that?

I really don’t know enough about radios to have an opinion honestly though lol
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