Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

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SteveG
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Bronco Info: Wilson: 96, Stretched 17.5", coil-overs / Bypasses, 4-link, a fridge and all the amenities :)
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Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by SteveG »

I am posting this for Chris. A big thanks to Paul for taking the time to sift through several threads to put all this together for us. I have it all in a document file but will try to break it down and post it here to make it easier to view.
Pics to follow

I'll apologize ahead of time in case I screw up the order.
Last edited by SteveG on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bronco Info: Wilson: 96, Stretched 17.5", coil-overs / Bypasses, 4-link, a fridge and all the amenities :)
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by SteveG »

BajaChris wrote:I don't know about all the alphabet leaf spring names. But I have started my class 3 go fast
rear suspension. Here is a couple photos. The leafs will be based on a full size chevy leaf
which is long and symetrical. I'm putting the leafs under the axle and under the frame rail to
make room for the Bilstein Blackhawk and coilover on the trailing arm. At full compression,
the spring and shackles lay flat under the frame without any negative arch. At full droop, both
shackles allow for 25" travel. Dual shackle setup. It cycles 25" with less than 1/2" of driveshaft
plunge and good u-joint angles. Axle and engine in stock location, frame unmodified (not
even welding to it, everything bolts on). Tranny is a C6 race box from RDE (Rancho). T-case
is a NP205 with a NP208 adaptor, 8" shorter package than the BW1356. Anyway, thread title
is "start your go-fast build - rear suspension", so here you go.
Attachments
C3 (1).jpg
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C3 (2).jpg
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C3 (3).jpg
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C3 (4).jpg
C3 (4).jpg (68.59 KiB) Viewed 11460 times
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yikes
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by yikes »

Chris is doing it right. Great set-up and I'm sure he will keep it perfectly C3 legal for C3
races. The primary suspension just has to keep the vehicle within 2" of ride height. If the leaf
pack does that, then it's legal, because the supporting coil required to achieve the optimum
overall rate would certainly not be enough alone to keep the Bronco within 2" if the leaves
were removed. Get it? This is a perfectly SCORE legal concept. There is nothing that prevents
links. I imagine Chris will set the leaf pack up so it has as much of a linear rate as possible
and use the coils to tune, or just leave the coilovers off for C3. Great way to go. Similar in
concept to Dave's, but different in execution. This is the kind of ingenuity we need to see in
C3 to keep it alive and interesting. Super excited about this build! Will be fun to see Chris
battle it out with Don, Dave and Bunch. Will make for some great racing. Keep us updated
Chris!!
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by toddz69 »

Very well-stated. Less controversial than Dave's Bronco and very versatile. Chris can run
Class 3 and NORRA with this rig. I predict he'll be the strongest Class 3 competition (in terms
of Broncos) that Don and Ken have seen in a long time. Hell, ever!

Todd Z.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

We plan to race it in multiple series including those where there is no leaf spring rule and in
those cases we will remove the leafs and run a coilover only. In SCORE we will run leafs with
enough spring rate to be legal (it must use leafs as the primary spring AND they they must
support the vehicle with the secondary suspension disabled.) We may run a soft coil with
the leaf in SCORE. There is nothing in the rulebook that prohibits links nor does it prohibit
coils as secondary suspension. When we race CODE, we will enter class 8 and use coils only.
In NORRA, coilovers are allowed on all 4 corners regardless of make in the short wheelbase
classes.
We do plan to use a controversial body (with no performance advantage) but the chassis
and suspension will be beyond question when it comes to rules. We are planning to use an
all steel 1970 early bronco body on this 1992 ttb bronco. We spoke with Savage and he said
no problem to pre or post date the body. And if you dig into what parts of the body are not
allowed to be modified, well there is not much left as Dave Moore found out. You can use
a fabricated firewall, floor, hood, fenders, lower body. Just need to keep the A and B pilars
intact. And in our case we will locate those where they belong for a 1992 chassis. No funny
stuff with drivetrain or suspension location, everything in stock locations for the chassis it's
built upon. Anyway, back to the go fast suspension thread...
It's a race bronco and it's purpose is to win races. Maybe it will fail at that, have to race it
to find out. But part of winning is finishing so we are focused on a reliable build that is prep
friendly but designed to go fast. The Moss Bros have set the bar very high when it comes to
the combo of speed with reliability. It's easy to get one or the other, very tough to get both.
Refer to the finishing record in both class 3 and 8 for evidence of that.
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Bronco Info: Wilson: 96, Stretched 17.5", coil-overs / Bypasses, 4-link, a fridge and all the amenities :)
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by SteveG »

Crap. I already blew it... I'll clean up the photos later and continue posting.... lots to post.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

Thanks for creating this thread and getting it jump started. I have a ton of photos and will add to it as time allows. I'm a little behind on posting photos.

The latest on the build is the truck is a full roller now, all moving parts (other than driver controls) are done and in place. We put the body on it and took it to Savage since it's marginal. It sure looks cool.

I see that I previously identified my chassis as a 92, but it's actually a 91, no significant difference but wanted to clear that up. And the body we will call a 66. There are parts from more than one early bronco there.

Anyway we put the 66 B-pillars where they would be on a 91 chassis but the A-pillars were about 2.5 inches forward of where they would be on a 91 chassis. The rules talk about the measurement from the B-pillar to the spindle so we are good there. But the rules also clearly say you cannot modify the body so we cannot race this project in class 3 at the baja 1000 as planned.

Maybe next year Savage will relax the rules enough for us to run in class 3, maybe not. So we have the option to just put a late model body on it but that's not what we want to do since we plan to use this truck for other purposes including showing off nice fab work and just having something that is different and cool. So we are going forward with the 66 body on the 91 chaissis and we will continue to keep it class 3 legal other than the modified body, just in case it becomes legal or the class 3 dudes want to let it run. If we finish it in time for the 1000 then we will enter it in class 8. And in this case, we would run rear coilovers instead of the leafs since that's ok in class 8. If we ended up in class 3 (would only happen if all the class 3 dudes wanted us to run there, not likely) then we would run without rear coilovers and on leafs only since we would not want to run the risk of getting a DQ because of a broken leaf and then having the coil hold the truck up.

Back to the body, we are going to move the A-pillar back so it's within about 1/2" of where it would be on a 91 chassis so both A&B pillars will be where they would be on a 91, the seats will be where they would be on a 91, etc. To fit the body to the chassis in the width department we are adding 13" of body width down the middle of the tub/firewall/dash. The hood gets widended in two strips 6.5" each on each side so we keep the stock profile of the raised hood we are running. And the grill is left untouched between the headlights, but we cut vertically through each headlight bucket and moved them out 6.5" and dropped in a dual headlight bezel out of a Peterbuilt. Fits perfect and looks great. In the length department, the 91 is a foot longer wheelbase than the 66 plus the 91 has more rear overhang so the frame rails stick out further behind the rear axle than they did on early broncos. So we are adding 2" of body length in the front wheelwell to get the a-pillar where it should be on a 91 and still keep the grill where where it needs to be relative to the front spindle. Then there are a few inches of body length added in the door opening because EB doors are not as long as late model doors. Then there will be a few inches of body length added to the rear fenders in front of the rear wheelwell to locate the rear fender wheelwell over the rear axle. Then finally we will need to add a few inches of body to the rear fenders behind the rear wheelwell so the 91 frame rails don't stick out past the body. All that and it ends up roughly the same dimensions as a late model bronco but it sure looks mean and custom. And that's why we want to do it, even if it means it's no longer a class 3. Oh well. BITD does not even have class 3 anymore. Code never did. Norra only cares about wheelbase and 4x4 for thier short 4x4 classes. Anyway, will be a few weeks until I can get new photos posted.

And for those who wonder why do it at all or why not just slap the EB body on it and add all the length in the rear fender, well it's no different than wanting to build a custom hot rod and going to all the trouble to change the body shape and get the proportions where you want them. This is our hot rod.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by ESHALLBETTER »

THIS IS GREAT! Thank you! Can't wait to see body pics.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by ChaseTruck754 »

ESHALLBETTER wrote:THIS IS GREAT! Thank you! Can't wait to see body pics.
Exactly what he said!

Sounds REALLY cool & I can't wait to see more pics of this beast!
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SteveG
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Bronco Info: Wilson: 96, Stretched 17.5", coil-overs / Bypasses, 4-link, a fridge and all the amenities :)
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by SteveG »

baja-chris wrote:Thanks for creating this thread and getting it jump started. I have a ton of photos and will add to it as time allows. I'm a little behind on posting photos.
No problem, Chris. It'll probably be some time next week before I have time to post a good chunk of the stuff Paul sent me.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by economig »

aaahhhh... i see now! ha ha i was lookin on my iPhone (Tapatalk) and there was nothing :)

very cool on a real computer!

thanks guys (and Steve for posting)
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by MOSS2 »

Shoot I was under the impression you already had a ok from Savage on the body.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

MOSS2 wrote:Shoot I was under the impression you already had a ok from Savage on the body.
Nothing is ever a done deal with Savage until it's a done deal. I have no issues with him, he said we can pre or post date the body in class 3 but he never said I could modify the body in the process! Hopefully nobody will object if he relaxes body rules a bit for next year.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by Deleted Account »

can someone just ask to get the leaf rule gone for god sake.... so much extra time and expence. 4 link c/os and leafs. make it leaf or link. Im all for link because of the maintinance is so much cheaper. and works so much better. but all 3 is crazy. It is a nice build Chris.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

Here's a couple pictures showing the trial and error mock up for designing the rear suspension links. The tin plate has a side view of the rear end housing with a couple holes for different possible link locations. The links are telescoping and are tack welded, cut, repeat to try various link lengths. Then the link locations on the frame are held with c-clamps to make them
easy to move. The focus was to get the driveshaft where we wanted it. It's a bit like religon I guess, but I'm of the opinion that you must have minimal driveshaft plunge to have reliability under race conditions (where you are transmitting max torque while the suspension is cycling fast). So that was one of the areas of focus. We also focued upon roll steer and roll center. It's all a bunch of compromises. No such thing as a perfect setup. I started out in two dimensions, just looking at the problem from the side view.
Attachments
C3 (5).jpg
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C3 (6).jpg
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C3 (7).jpg
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

Now that I've selected the link locations for the rear end housing, we had to tab out the housing. We selected Camburg for the excellent value on the complete rear end setup, fabricated housing, spindles, axles, 3rd member, hubs, brakes. 0.250 wall 4130 tubes and center section with a massive 0.375 4130 front plate for the 3rd member to bolt to. It's a 40 spline setup with 4.88 gears and a spool, 4 piston 6" Wilwoods on vented rotors. We are running 15" wheels and 35" tires (for reliability, smaller is less stress). Here are a couple photos showing the rear end link mounts. I cut them all from 4130 plate on the band saw and my partner Glen did his magic with the welder.
Attachments
C3 (8).jpg
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C3 (9).jpg
C3 (9).jpg (57.88 KiB) Viewed 11446 times
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

With the rear end tabbed out, next was to switch to 3-D mock up. Telescoping links and a telescoping driveshaft were fitted to cycle the suspension and see what it does. More trial and error to trade off all the compromises for driveshaft plunge, u-joint angles, and link/handling geometries. We ended up with the lower link pivot in line with the driveshaft u-joint (in side view) and with the upper link pivot about 5" up and 5" back from the lower. We dropped the transfer case a bit to position the links in a nice spot relative to the frame.
Attachments
C3 (10).jpg
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C3 (11).jpg
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C3 (12).jpg
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by cs_drums »

Any Updates?
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by SteveG »

cs_drums wrote:Any Updates?
I've got a ton to post. I'll get back to work soon.
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Re: Glen Strightiff/Chris Wilson C3 build

Post by baja-chris »

Once Steve uploads the old stuff, I've got some new content to add. Right now the truck is a roller and we are fitting the body and cage. It's on the wheel and tire package we will run (17" Walker beadlocks with 37" BFG Baja T/A's). I've ordered a 427 from Ford based on the Boss 351 block, 535hp/545tq. Harmon built us an 80 gal fuel cell. Stole the rear Mastercraft 3G seats out of my 4-seater, will get some replacements for it later. Picked up brake pedal and masters from the BFG classifieds. All the big parts are there to jam on the cage fabrication. The body parts are freshly sand blasted, newly exposed metal easier to weld to and easier to paint.
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