GoFastBroncos.com

Hello All,
Has anyone here on this list had any long term use of the various stand along fuel injection systems and E4OD controllers?? I am at about the end of my rope dealing with my engine and was just looking to find out what anyone else on here has used. I am honestly wanting to use this as a desert truck and go anywhere from the AZ/CA/NV desert all the way to the tip of the Baja peninsula potentially and long term durability is of paramount importance. I am just not sure if I will be able to make my current system work like I had wanted and if not I need a contingency plan quite honestly. The FAST and Holley TBI setups look pretty cool and I would think pretty easy/fast to install. No real idea on the E4OD controllers.

Thanks,
Matt

If long-term durability is of paramount importance, OE is the way to go. No aftermarket manufacturer anywhere near the amount of engineering or testing that the OEM's do.

I used USShift for the E40D loved it.

If the tweecer doesn't work I'm gonna end up with one of these!

I understand your angst. I dearly wanted to stick with the factory efi (albeit in slightly modified form to fit my non-efi truck's wiring system) to preserve all the benefits, BUT, there is almost NO support here for the EEC4 system, and the few who actually have knowledge of the Ford system are few and far between if I get into trouble (and charge like wounded bulls). I decided to stick with carb, std factory electronic ignition and the AOD. My reasons are my own, so I could fix ANYTHING with hand tools and not be stopped by faulty electronics, regardless of how reliable they may be. Perhaps that's what you need to contemplate for your own peace of mind. Just my $0.02.

Many years and many thousands of miles in Baja with stock Mass EFI on my Bronco and of all the issues I have had none are related to the EFI. Maybe more well read users have discovered EFI issues? If so what is the weak points of the stock system?
Maybe the issues comes from DIY conversions where the installer ignores the Ford specs for the wiring?
My suggestion for a conversion from carb or SD EFI would be to get a doner MA rig and use ALL the stock stuff including the ECU.
Of course if the doner has an E4OD then that means no aftermarket controller. The only mod from stock needed is the MIL eliminator to get rid of the CEL when you uses a custom exhaust.
However the aftermarket controllers out there have been in use for a very long time and they should not present any issues.
PS, I have an AOD and in IMO it sucks. There has to be a better choice whether electric or not.

Well Mike Grover the owner of Tweecer is pretty thorough so far and very confidant he can get the truck to run well. I have him every spec on my engine and can manipulate the trucks ECU via a remote online connection. So with that said- I'm very hopeful and staying positive. If it doesn't work I'm buying a standalone E4OD controller and probably stand alone throttle body EFI or a simple 89-93 Mustang injection but I'm leading toward abject simplicity. Again I'm hoping for the best!

PaulW wrote:PS, I have an AOD and in IMO it sucks. There has to be a better choice whether electric or not.

Mine was a brand new rebuilt from Monster Transmissions in Florida, still in it's box with the new convertor and fluid. I'm sure I'll have problems, too. IF that happens, it's an easy fix, go straight back to the trusty NP435.

VintageIronFab wrote:Well Mike Grover the owner of Tweecer is pretty thorough so far and very confidant he can get the truck to run well. I have him every spec on my engine and can manipulate the trucks ECU via a remote online connection. So with that said- I'm very hopeful and staying positive. If it doesn't work I'm buying a standalone E4OD controller and probably stand alone throttle body EFI or a simple 89-93 Mustang injection but I'm leading toward abject simplicity. Again I'm hoping for the best!

If I go back to EFI, and it is likely I will at a later date to make it more compatible with the closed loop propane ECU, then I will go to the Holley Pro-jection. My truck is basically set-up for EFI, so the install will be easy and to un-do it will be just as easy if it doesn't work/suit. PaulW has a point, though, use the ENTIRE set-up from an appropriate truck or Bronco and it SHOULD be reliable. (Famous last words).

From my reading: Now days the throttle body EFI setups are numerous. Easy to install and some even have self tuning feature. Very tempting for an new build to avoid using doner old stuff. However a stand alone trans controller would be required.

Well I think if I had a stock 302 or 351with no mods- and transplant the complete MAF harness I doubt there would be any issue at all. I've said it quite a few times - there's many reasons lots of guys run a carburetor that's tweeked for offroad use and s c6 because crazy stupid issues like I'm messing with are minimal.

From my data base
Converting from old stuff to MAF EFI a popular way to go is the Mustang Fox body PCM
Old stuff is Speed density EFI or Carburetor. Below is your contact for help as described in the video. Of course if your PCM does not have the typical fault in the video at least the guy gives his contact email. As he notes in the video he does repairs for a fee. From my other reading the guy also helps with other issues.
https://youtu.be/-O7FUoQzTB4

And yes a proper carb setup will work just fine. You all probably followed Chris' EFI build properly tuned for his 412 stroker motor. Sure enough it was a big deal. He used the subject PCM with Quarter Horse tuning software. Anyway, now days he has a Ford Boss 351/460 and he is using a carburetor specifically tweaked for Baja racing. Works great and does not have any of the issues that are widely reported for a carburetor setup. This carb setup is only slightly less expensive than some of the aftermarket EFI setups offered these days.

Carb is not for me because my rigs have to work from sea level to 12000 feet elevation and I will be darned if I will live with various tunes for the carb which will never be correct. Stick to small elevation variations like a desert racer then carb should be pretty successful, but don't cheap out on the parts.

It has been very long time since I have used any of the OEM stuff. As far back as when Ryan started Ford EFI. I was using his harnesses with manual transmissions so I can't speak of using something like this with an automatic.

First off let me say there are numerous people out there that call themselves experts or tuners. If you are thinking of using someone like this to help along the way talk to people he has done work for. It is like building a house a lot of people call themselves carpenters but how many can build a house correctly.

If you are thinking of going with any of the bolt on self learning TBI systems DON"T. My reasons are that you maybe limited to what you can actually change in the tune and may find that it will have bad habits and not give you the drivability you need. Flat spot, stumbling, poor idle quality, surging at cruise. It is a compromise system designed to make it attractive to bolt on guys. They do not have the development time the OEMs used. TBI systems do have a hidden fault that unless you have spent time running the systems with O2 sensors on each cylinder. Throttle body injection CAN NOT accurately mix fuel and air and equally to all cylinders. Regardless that a carb can do it, a carb does it differently using vacuum signals to draw fuel from carb. What you end up with is O2 readings that vary greatly from cylinder to cylinder. Anyone that tells you differently ask them how much time they have spent monitoring each cylinder. This O2 reading varying can cause cylinder washing( premature ring and cylinder wear), or lean cylinders causing burnt pistons or exhaust valves.

My recommendation is since the engine hardware already exist and you are looking for longevity OEM sensors have proven themselves over the years, use that hardware with an aftermarket ECU and Transmission controller. You seem to be worried about dependability of aftermarket systems. The major players in the game have proven their hardware can last just as well as OEM when it comes to ECU.

Not anyone I know offers an aftermarket system that will do EFI and transmission control for the transmission you are using. The Baumann controller has been around for ages and is a proven system. Connections to an EFI system are minimal and can be used with just about any aftermarket system.

Sorry for rambling so long just wanted to eliminate all the marketing hype and give you real life results.

If you want EFI and Transmission control along with dependability, drivability, and proven results then this is what I would do. Go straight to Ron Francis Wiring and get either a TD-75 or TH-75S wiring harness, depending on if you want to run SD or MAF.
https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TDZ-75
https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TDZ-75SD

Go to AMPEFi and get the MSPNP2 ECU
For SD https://www.ampefi.com/product/mspnp2-8 ... stang-5-0/
For MAF https://www.ampefi.com/product/mspnp2-9 ... ual-trans/ Don't woory that it says manual transmission that is because of the harness differences.
Either of these will work with the Baumann (US Shift) controller. http://www.becontrols.com/e4od.shtml

There is tons of online support for the EFI and Baumann.

There maybe someone local to you that can give you face to face help. If you decide to go this direction I can try and find someone who is a real professional and a good reputation.


No I don't have any financial interest in any products mentioned. Just want to weed out all the marketing hype and get the real facts out there.

Any feedback on the MSD Atomic stand alone TCM? Seems easy enough to install and I like that it has its own display screen, so you don't need a PC/Laptop. It looks like the setup is a breeze too. I can specify the 40 pulse signal from my atlas 2 GM VSS. Big name brand that my vendor sells, so if I have any issues I know i'll easily get taken care of.

My only issue with msd is longevity. What do you do if you're 500 miles from home, or literally in the middle of NV, CA or AZ -- or even much much worse in Baja and the ECU takes a dump?

VintageIronFab wrote:My only issue with msd is longevity. What do you do if you're 500 miles from home, or literally in the middle of NV, CA or AZ -- or even much much worse in Baja and the ECU takes a dump?

Yeah i'll be running two MSD ignition control modules for that very reason. Read a few good reviews about the US Shift over the years. I checked out their setup guide on youtube. Looks like a pretty bad ass setup! It requires a laptop to do the advanced settings, but that's not that big of a deal. May be going that route instead!

So apparently this is all out of date stuff, my street friends just informed me what to use for my 408w I'm building and the tuner said to ditch my stock ecu and tweeCEr and go and buy a DIY mega squirt, under 400 and there's another one for the trans controller also for under 400$ but it's a wire yourself set up. I just found out about it, I'll go that route if I can't get the 408 tuned with the tweecer



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I've got a gremlin in my soup someplace- I have the tweecer and paid for the remote tune. Mike is pretty much stumped. Btw this is no bash on him- when the truck runs with the coil wire off and not on that's a gremlin. I posted on another build about standalone stuff. To buy a sniper and the USShift stuff it's $2500 when you figure gaskets coolant, oil and a new 4barrel manifold. To go Mass-air.com it's about $2000 and no manifold stuff- you still run the ussshifter stuff and then there's Fiveology at about $800-$900. It truly comes down in my book to wanting to use a stock ecu but that my be a no go for me.

Was wondering if anyone has used this yet, I heard some good things but mainly on sbc stuff. Was wondering if anyone has done this on a 351w. I think it would clean up the engine bay a lot more, its a complete stand alone self learning system, which if I'm not mistaken could be used on a Air gap/ torq thrust style manifold?? )I'm gonna call the company to confirm) or I see they have their own manifold along with a self learning fuel system. seem s pretty interesting!..... any feed back????

Air gap 351w