Cut and turn dana 50 discussion.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:57 am

While stumbling through the internet I bumped into a guy who swears by cut and turned dana 50 with welded on radius arms essentially making them j arms. He made a lot of valid points and claims 17" travel with the same mods traditionally done on dana 44 ttb stuff. Highlights of the conversation:

-Almost same size beams side to side.
-Beams are close to the same size as the short dana 44 beam
-Bigger snouts, hubs, bearings, brakes and running gear
-Pivot boxes need to be fabbed for beams

I can see a really bad camber change being the biggest downfall of this kind of set up which would make me want to set up the ride height a little higher to keep the majority stuff instead of droop so camber changes are a little more manageable.

A lot less work than hybrid beams..... what do you guys think?

drewbee88 · Post by **drewbee88** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:52 pm

Seabass wrote:While stumbling through the internet I bumped into a guy who swears by cut and turned dana 50 with welded on radius arms essentially making them j arms. He made a lot of valid points and claims 17" travel with the same mods traditionally done on dana 44 ttb stuff. Highlights of the conversation:

-Almost same size beams side to side.
-Beams are close to the same size as the short dana 44 beam
-Bigger snouts, hubs, bearings, brakes and running gear
-Pivot boxes need to be fabbed for beams

I can see a really bad camber change being the biggest downfall of this kind of set up which would make me want to set up the ride height a little higher to keep the majority stuff instead of droop so camber changes are a little more manageable.

A lot less work than hybrid beams..... what do you guys think?

so I am working on some options. I currently have hybrid beams but my next set will be 44 beams with either a custom knuckle with Dana 50 snouts or make a Dana 50 snout bolt to the 44s. The passenger 50 beam is same as 44 but not as tall so it limits the travel as the axle window is not as tall. The 50s are closer to a equal length setup as the drivers beam is shorter. So you will have more camber change but the camber change should be closer side to side.

philofab · Post by **philofab** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:56 pm

The axle is closer to the same length as the beam so it travels in the same arc as the beam. A large window isn't needed as much because of this.

Tom has a 44HD on the front of his truck, and it works very well. With the correct steering design and enough caster the camber change isn't noticeable when driving.

Wrightracing.net · Post by **Wrightracing.net** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:41 pm

From what I have read on the Dana 50 ends are bigger to allow larger u joints, which increases the strength of the front end. Wouldn't it be the best way to go, to keep the Dana 50 Beam ends on Dana 44 beams and use 50 knuckles. If the issue is 5on5.5 lugs, then maybe conversion hubs?

That is a route I am thinking of going. My reason for the extra strength is to be able to withstand the wear and tear of 37" Baja TA's. I have fallen in love with the ones I got for my F350.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:20 am

That's been done. Check out the slappy style build.

If you where to build extended 50 beam (off of 50 pivots not 44 pivots) youd have equal length/a lot closser to equal length beams making camber sweep even side to side and steering would be easier to set up correctly... I think.

Wrightracing.net · Post by **Wrightracing.net** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:14 am

The problem you run it with that setup, is you then have to change the Dana 50 pivot point to keep the placement of the differential and cut and extend both sides of the pumpkin to make it equal length. The other issue you have now caused is a steep camber issue along with a steep axle angle on the passanger side limiting the wheel travel. To get it to work you would have to basically make it close to the same pivot points as a Dana 44 setup with alot of cutting on the Dana 50 housings.

Just seems like a poor way to transition to a Dana 50.

I am not sure if I will run the Dana 44 or 50 Third Member, but both bolt up to the 44 housing. Since the 4.88 gears are available for both, I may end up with the 50 if it is stronger.

philofab · Post by **philofab** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:38 am

A Dana 50 uses Dana 60 hubs, so you could just purchase 5x5.5 hubs if you want that pattern. Yukon and other make them.

The Dana 50 pivots work just fine how they are. In the dirt the camber curve doesn't really matter if matched with a good working steering setup.

Wrightracing.net · Post by **Wrightracing.net** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:43 pm

I'm not sure on it, but the steep angle of the passenger side would be an issue with the axle window into the housing. I have not seen one with a long travel setup. I am not saying it can't be done, just, is it the best way to achieve your goal?

funinthesun95 · Post by **funinthesun95** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:30 pm

Not a bronco but same idea
http://agileoffroad.com/4x4-van-conversion/

Glen set up 50 TTB

I love BajaF250 and it does very well with cut turn set up...44hd and 50 almost same thing

I Would say your driving style and use of bronco or truck should tell you if you need 50 stuff in any form. Complete beams or just outers. 37 are more and more common now on Broncos... But people still have not had issues with 44 stuff, yes it pushes the limits of the 44 stuff but I have only seen race trucks doing race things brake parts. Some people on here may have seen parts fail more then I...

I don't need it..... Just think it cool and it is already done

it is bigger 1 ton stuff so it has it up side.

If your front end is done buy fabricated knuckles... A lot less time and work

a few guys have said 50 beams have some challenges if you want high travel numbers out of them.

bajaf250 gets after it in his truck .... So we know it works just fine.

Rmc · Post by **Rmc** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:52 am

I have zero front end issues to date on d44. No loose nuts, no sheared snouts, no bad bearings, same ball joints for 3.5 years. Grade A autozone duralast's lol
I honestly think people have little to worry about unless there goal is huckfest and huckfest practice sessions.

Wrightracing.net · Post by **Wrightracing.net** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:13 am

funinthesun95 wrote:Not a bronco but same idea
http://agileoffroad.com/4x4-van-conversion/

Glen set up 50 TTB

I love BajaF250 and it does very well with cut turn set up...44hd and 50 almost same thing.

I have to agree, Glen has done a great job on the Van TTB conversion with Ramsey. But even that setup is not really Long travel at 12".

Like Robert said, it all depends on what you plan to do. Most people will not need the extra strength. I ran a D44 for many years without major issues. For my next build, I am going for something to withstand another 30 years of hard off roading in my 1986 Little Mule "PePe"

cs_drums · Post by **cs_drums** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:20 am

Here is my $.02...

1. This has been proven. As said, Baja 250 is one of the nicest trucks on this site and it has proven d44hd/d50 in a long travel application works and works well.

2. The D50 beams close in dimension to the pass d44 beam. What ever negatives in camber your worried about are already in play with the D44 set up.

3. Why the worry?? Let's see some carnage of all the members that have destroyed the d44 stuff...... Bueller. Doesn't happen often 99% of us are fun prerunners not racing.

I don't want to sound negative it just seams like people more and more lately are adding time and money to there build trying to chase some elusive unbreakable trophy bronco idea, Time and money are the enemy of build completion. Anyone hat had built a complete truck can tell you there is more than enough time and money need to complete with out trying to reinvent the wheel.

I know I did and don't want other new guys to get caught up in thinking they need to worry about everything to the 10* on "weak links"

and "I should do it now rather than have to redo later" it's a never ending cycle that 9/10 ends in a pile full of parts and no time or money to finish.

cs_drums · Post by **cs_drums** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:20 am

Sorry for the rant.

RyanDS650X · Post by **RyanDS650X** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:00 am

Truth.

funinthesun95 · Post by **funinthesun95** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:09 am

cs_drums wrote:Sorry for the rant.

BOOOOOOOO

Dream Killer

it all comes down to skill level, money, and time...... in all we do

I fell into mine..... Hard parts done

funinthesun95 · Post by **funinthesun95** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:10 am

Wrightracing.net wrote:
funinthesun95 wrote:Not a bronco but same idea
http://agileoffroad.com/4x4-van-conversion/

Glen set up 50 TTB

I love BajaF250 and it does very well with cut turn set up...44hd and 50 almost same thing.
I have to agree, Glen has done a great job on the Van TTB conversion with Ramsey. But even that setup is not really Long travel at 12".

Like Robert said, it all depends on what you plan to do. Most people will not need the extra strength. I ran a D44 for many years without major issues. For my next build, I am going for something to withstand another 30 years of hard off roading in my 1986 Little Mule "PePe"

12" is long travel for a Van.....lmao

funinthesun95 · Post by **funinthesun95** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:54 am

this is from a old build from RD

this not just Cut and Turn as you can see....might not be the correct place to post...as the title says cut and turn dana 50 in this thread

this is just a extreme example of what can be done with 1 ton stuff it is equal length TTB

rear-end is a 14 bolt

all re drilled to 6 on 6.5 TT lug

Wrightracing.net · Post by **Wrightracing.net** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:16 am

That is Ramsay's Blazer, it has not been tested yet, so there is still some development Glen may have to do. It has been in the corner of the shop for several years. There is a bunch oh innovative stuff on that Blazer, like the stereing. Search on a build called Raquel on Race-derzert.

philofab · Post by **philofab** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:17 am

Just so you guys understand, when the beam is longer than the axle it travels in a different arc. Since the beam is shorter on a D50, almost the same length as the axle, it travels in the same arc, and has less plunge in the center joint. This means it says centered in the beam window longer, and the window can be smaller.

The geometery on a D50 is better for the axles and window clearance than a D44, not worse.

Wrightracing.net · Post by **Wrightracing.net** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:12 am

Ok, so what is the limiting factor of the amount of wheel travel that the D50 is capable of verses the Dana 44 Geometry wheel travel? Even Ramsey and Glen don't consider the 12" of wheel travel they are getting on the Van's long travel, but they do handle great.