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I think Lee was closer to $800 when Brian did it. Maybe he'll see & give actual price.

I've also heard good things about Red Head steering. Maybe one of their boxes is a happy medium between Lee & a stock replacement??? Not 100% positive on what they do to their boxes though

I'm sorry but $800 for a Ford steering box is insane. I paid $450 in 2001 for an AGR when they weren't all sold out to the man . The agr was a 4bolt saginaw quick ratio with some nice billet parts as well

The e150 saginaw swap is super easy especially when you use -6an fitting and lines. Using the stock stuff really doesn't make any sense in my opinion.

- boxes
In the EB world there much discussion and there is some disagreement on boxes. In one case your stock box is said to be the strongest. On the other hand the Delphi/Saginaw box is supposed to be strongest. The D/S box has 4 mounting holes so one new one has to be made. Some use that box with stock 3 holes. Finding a new box seems to be impossible as everything I find are rebuilt. Re-builders are PSC, Lee, Howe, Red Neck, Borgeson, AGR, +, and of course many guys are DIY. The vendors like Jegs, Summit and the Bronco vendors are selling re-built of one brand or the other and of course they all say theirs are the best and strongest. And I suspect one of the re-builders mentioned is their source. My stock box was re-built by Lee some time ago and he did find the famous cracked shaft. I got a new shaft. When getting one of the re-built make sure you get a new shaft. Note that the Ford Stock box for an EB is a combo of the 4wd & 2wd to get the pitman pointed in the correct direction. This mod apparently has no impact on strength or function.
In theory the stock box with ram assist lessens the stress on the box so it should last longer. And if adding a ram assist be sure to have your pump is detailed for more poop, If using a ram + Hydro then it probably is best to get a stand alone Delphi/Saginaw pump and a stand alone res

Having said the above about boxes it seems like any of the options will work fine. For sure the stock box rebuilt to new like condition does work for lots of miles and will work even better with a ram assist. Replacing teh shaft raises the cost.

Did you all know that Lee has reported to be in limbo and one of his best guys has started up a steering business. Maybe some one can provide a real update?

So what is in the cards for my EB after a year so research will be the ported Bronco/F150 box, stand alone pump + res, & ram all from the same place with the pump detailed for Ram & hydro. At this time Wild Horses has an off the shelf kit and comes with new hoses. I will keep my existing filter & serp cooler for that upgrade. I have been told that the WH setup is from PSC, but any on the re-builders would make me happy.

Tips for guys getting a replacement pump or box.
- Make sure you get one with the correct pulley shaft. Bigger is better = GM source.
- Boxes come with different output shafts. Measure what you have for your existing steering shaft then proceed.
- Just to confuse the issue even more. Boxes come with different ratios and that option probably impacts the cost?. Good luck figuring out what is best for your application. Ratios vary from around 12 to 14:1 (don't quote me on that). Has a major impact on how quick or slow you want. Measure what you have now and go from there. Measure the turns lock to lock and proceed.

Gees, could it be more confusing?? If so let us all know Ha.
PW

I believe the main guy from Lee who spun out on his own has a business called PSS Power Steering Solutions and I think this is his website which has email and phone contact.
What I heard was that he was being bankrolled by Roy of Pro Am / Kartek. I have not used him yet but plan to talk to him next time it's time to rebuild and mag our race stuff.
I've had several people I trust recommend that I give him a shot next time. http://www.powersteeringsolution.com/

Personally I don't think there is any magic to what these race steering builders do and there is no reason why you can't get the same quality and attention to detail from a non-race vendor.
But I don't want to try someone unless I have personal experience with them or know someone I trust who does. So that limits my choices to the local desert race vendors.
For me, saving $400 on steering is not worth the risk of trying someone new that may not have seen and serviced hundreds of steering boxes and pumps that have been used in top level desert racing.

All I was trying to get at was that if you go with a GM steering box (like CW used in his EB-TTB build) the amount of new and high end parts are vast compared to the Ford stuff. There are some pretty damn good fabricators here on this site and if you can mount a set of coilovers, cages, bumpers and build all kinds of other stuff -- you are more than capable to mount a 4-bolt saginaw on the inside of the frame. Just spending $800 on an inferior box just seems to be a lot of money when you can fix the problem with a much more proven design.

As far as the EB goes I have personally done probably a 100 4x4x2 steering boxes. My next huge EB build is getting a 4-bolt saginaw box mounting on the outside of the frame as the 4x4 shaft on the 70's 1/2-ton trucks is about a 20% fail rate -- they are also 30 years old as of now.

So does a P/S cooler have to mount at or below the pump filler level? Could a cooler be mounted above or would the gravity of the fluid push out through the fill cap when the engine turns off?

Charlie at PSS is the man.

I wouldn't mount a cooler above the pump filler. That's asking for trouble.

This was posted in my Build by De$ertBronco ....looks like a good way to keep cost down and not have to Pay for AN fittings. I also am doing what Philo has said...stock Saginaw pump big res and cooler.... this kept my cost down...then in a few years if I feel I need it I will upgrade the pump to P pump that has all the big stuff....only if needed.... reman for 80 bucks it hard for me to justify the bling bling P pump when the stock P pump has been leaking and still does just fine now no noise...etc.

This is what I had on my last two broncos
My original set up was stock Box tapped for Ram. Add Ram and stock Van Saginaw pump and bracket. ( I have single swing steering as well)
Ram and Lines $250 metal for mount (Dave help AKA slappy style)
stock box taken apart and tapped added line ports (free Dave labor)
Van Bracket and pump junk yard....$50

Cost can rang as we all know depending on parts and labor


Re: Willie's.....1992
Post by De$ertBronco » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:34 am

the top return is for the hydroboost. im using the 97 FSD hydroboost/lines and had Rupe's Hydraulics in San Marcos cut the pump side pressure fitting off the line and adapted it to the sag pump. the bronco gear box was the same as the 97 FSD, so the pressure line there doesn't need to be modified. i used a remote reservoir from a hummer.. it is a 1" hose fitting same as the pump and has a 2 bolt mounting bracket welded to it to make mounting easy. I don't have photos of my setup but these should help...

also Remember that the Saginaw P pump is the most popular "upgrade pump" around and has tons of option and upgrades you can do at any time.

FWIW I haven't had any problems with the manual steering box off an 80s ranger, and it will never spray ATF onto an exhaust manifold. Once you get used to having to hold the wheel differently when you're off road it's not bad at all. Parking lots suck but they should be a lot better in a Bronco (wheelbase). I had a steering quickener in there backwards for awhile and that was great until I had problems with the mount I designed and had to take it out (it will be going back in).

I second not mounting any sort of reservoir above the fill level. You could probably get away with it if you put a check valve right after the steering gear and right before the return to the reservoir. The "cracking pressure" should be enough to keep the fluid in the line and cooler and not overflow out of the reservoir for months or years.

IMO if you go with a remote reservoir mount it as far above the pump as possible to get the maximum pressure at the pump return. Remote reservoir P-pumps are basically normal P-pumps with a smaller reservoir around the pump and no cap so they're essentially running in their own reservoir making them less sensitive to return line size and the possibility of fluid sloshing around interrupting the return flow from the reservoir.

There's probably over 100 pages of in-depth tech on the subject of P/S pumps on Pirate. IIRC there was some interesting discussion about using a pressure vented cap (like a radiator) to help prevent fluid foaming.

Another thing to remember is that we don't need maximum steering effort at available at idle like rock-crawlers do so we can use a larger pulley to keep the pump happy without sacrificing performance.

Ram assist steering doesn't necessarily use all that much fluid. We're trying to take force off the steering gear, not rearrange boulders. A pair of dampers and a conservatively sized cylinder accomplishes the former well whereas you basically need a log splitter cylinder for the latter, much different flow requirements. I do like overkill, but overkill in steering is partially un-sprung weight, not good

[quote="funinthesun95"]This was posted in my Build by De$ertBronco ....looks like a good way to keep cost down and not have to Pay for AN fittings. I also am doing what Philo has said...stock Saginaw pump big res and cooler.... this kept my cost down...then in a few years if I feel I need it I will upgrade the pump to P pump that has all the big stuff....only if needed.... reman for 80 bucks it hard for me to justify the bling bling P pump when the stock P pump has been leaking and still does just fine now no noise...etc.

This is what I had on my last two broncos
My original set up was stock Box tapped for Ram. Add Ram and stock Van Saginaw pump and bracket. ( I have single swing steering as well)
Ram and Lines $250 metal for mount (Dave help AKA slappy style)
stock box taken apart and tapped added line ports (free Dave labor)
Van Bracket and pump junk yard....$50



I have used the wrong term when I say Tapped....Box has holes drilled and fitting welded on.....Tapped would be threads added to hole....sorry

My AGR box that has ports for a ram has the -6AN male fittings TIG welded on and not tapped. I wouldn't want the fittings threaded on myself. I still say that if you can build a bumper or are going to need coilovers-- modifying the frame for a 4- bolt saginaw box is a breeze! If you really wanna be fancy build the mounts for both the factory and 4-bolt box. I know if I do another FSB or F150 it's getting a saginaw box for sure.

The P-pump is awesome and has a lot of more pressure and flow available than what the oems spec'd them at. They do make some heat though. The next gen of saginaw pumps (type 2) are said to be much more efficient requiring less hp and making less heat. The bracket adapters are now available for sbf. They are very similar in design and the mods that apply to the p-pump also apply to the type 2.

Pumps fail from cavitation and extreme cases restriction or sudden loads but mostly cavitation. Unrestricted returns are a must. Ps fluid gets a work out, I constantly find melted accessory harnesses resting on cooler lines at work. Big tires don't help. Capacity and coolers help keep fluid from deteriorating.deteriorated fluid foams and cavitates earlier.

Filtration helps pump and seal life in my opinion. Every sag pump I've pulled apart has had tons of junk on the magnet. Lot's fine particulates getting ran through the pump and rest of the hydraulic system.

I forgot what the rule of thumb was but the proper sized reservoir for a hydraulic system is somewhere near 5x capacity per minute. Almost impossible to do on any automotive application so any addition to volume helps.

I use normal dex3 but have heard lots of people say it'll never work. Have read lot's of people with problematic hotrodded systems praise amsoil's tractor hydraulic fluid. I hate mail order so I haven't tried it yet.

I currently have a juiced p-pump on 35s with just the factory cooling loop and a filter in the return line. I can feel a definite difference between when the fluid is cool to when its hot. Just my personal butt dyno results. I ran a type 2 on my old rock crawler w/ a ram and had very little issues. Saginaw has got an amazing product that rarely sees the spotlight. Lot's of people riding their coattails and taking credit.

The ford sector shaft keeps me up at night. I don't know what I'm going to do about mine. Ram assist to help carry the load on a brand new/magged shaft or saginaw box. All real fixes cost mega bux.

Charlie at PSS sells a specific power steering fluid that it supposed to work wonders.

Although sector shafts do crack, it's rare that they brake completely unless you ignore them. They always seem to break at very slow speed which is a plus also.

I'm going to try and pick up a couple 5.8 brackets with the saginaw pump/pulley. I can run them through a parts washer a few tunes to get pretty clean - what's the market on something these would you all say?

Ya Seabass, I am with you on the Sector shaft. I broke one on the Bronco in a slow turn in Baja. I was fortunate that the Napa in Valley T had a stock rebuild on the shelf. I even broke the one on my F350.

I am doing the ram assisted setup on my Bronco to help prevent it in the future.

VintageIronFab wrote:I'm going to try and pick up a couple 5.8 brackets with the saginaw pump/pulley. I can run them through a parts washer a few tunes to get pretty clean - what's the market on something these would you all say?

Glad to be the first (i think) customer on this.

Planning to replace factory pressure line with -6an. Anybody know the fittings needed to adapt -6 to the box and sag pump on the pressure side? From what I read the factory return line should work with Sag Pump conversion. True?

I am running all factory lines with my Sag pump. Sag pumps have 4 different factory pressure fittings available, not sure what the van uses. Two standard and two metric.

Good info. Thanks!