Steering Systems - Stock, Superunner & Equal Len. Crossover

[Rmc]

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[Rmc]

Will any old swings get you close? Yes I say but agian what do you want? Zero bump steer or as close to as possible? If so then custom placed components will enhance the desired outcome of as little bump steer as possible.

This is why mixing & matching components can backfire at times. If you get beams & radius arms from one guy/place, it's good to get steering from the same place if you aren't going to go through the trouble of making your own.
This is because when builders mock up & design their swingers, etc. they are doing it with their beams & radius arms, so that is what the steering is designed to work with.

Swingers from another vendor may be close & will work (maybe even better than stock), but components that are built around each other & designed to work together function the best together & get you the best results.

Exactly right Steve!

[Rmc]

Here's one last pic. Now if you guys can decipher my jargen these are the tools to design your own.

[Dezurfer]

These are the measurements on my single swing setup. Im arguing with my prep guy that this isn't working.

My drivers side maxs out both left & right. The passengers comes close to bump going left but right the stop bolt is about an inch away.


What can be done to make it work right? I told him both sides needs to swing at the same radius. He say to grind out more of the driver side front beam to make the drivers side turn more. Like I mentioned before I'm doing this in Texas not San Diego so, no one here knows anything about this.

In the single swing steering do the tires turn a little off from one another.

[Rmc]

This should be in the steering thread.
I believe the best place to start is by ditching the motion ratio you are creating by unequal radius's. if you expect one to move equal to the other start with equal radius. Then I would relocate the whole system downward to as closely as possible create the condition of a shared centerline of beam/tierod radius relationships.

[Dezurfer]

If I bring the swing radius to 6" from 7" does this seem it would work? Being the pitman hiems are on the same radius but, the swing has two radius's?

I have room to drill a new hole on the swing to make the lower 6".

[Rmc]

The radius of the pitman radius should be measured angularly if there's drop in the arm. It's probably 1/4 inch longer than you think especially if its a drop style arm. My 2 cents is radius's need to be identical as possible to have the swing mirror what's being generated at the box. From there you will get all kinds of toe changes through its cycle if the centerlines of rotation aren't close. Look at the steering thread the last drawing I did shows the centerlines, just because there's a crossmember in the way dosnt change the beams center of rotation in relation to the steering. Beam radius and tie rod radius must rotate about the same center of rotation otherwise arc intersect aka usable range effects occur also known as toe changes. These toe changes could be slack condition or tight but toe in toe out. Watch the toe, mirror the radius's and match the centerlines of plane rotation. That's about all I can guess considering I'm not looking at it personally. The reason one side is moving farther than the other is the lever your applying the mirrored motion with is longer, this is not consistent with the box. The box is the base line of 1:1 there should be no applied ratio to achieve the mirror effect. After this headache comes placement which is where arc intersect becomes important to avoid changes in toe.
Something like that anyway, I haven't set up a swing set in about 6 years mind you so I'm rusty.

[yikes]

As shown the driver's side would move a crazy amount more than the passenger. I would either build a new pitman or swinger. Both should be identical. The swinger is fine as shown. Build a 7" pitman with the crossover at 4" to match. Then focus on the pivot location of the swinger to minimize bump steer.

[yikes]

Ooops. Well, I just gave the shorthand of what Robert wrote. Haha!

[Rmc]

The mirror hiem must be at 6 and the other also. Side by side unless you create a ratio. That said if you drilled a through hole in the pitman arm at 5 inches and the swing mirror hiem at 5 inches and both tierod radius pivots at 6 you would creat a 1:1 ratio of mirrored motion at the swing and a mirrored length of tierod pivot for the tierod.
Confusing I know. If it were labled a b c d it may be easier to keep straight in conversation.

[yikes]

Arc center symmetry is important as well.

[Rmc]

I wish I could keep it short n sweet like you yikes. I'm lousy at clear without details. Excellent cliff notes my man.

[Rmc]

So in the last 2 hand sketch's there are 2 major areas of discrepancy. First the tierod pivots need to be in the vicinity of the beam center of rotation and the vertical miss alignment needs corrected. So that means out with the swings and down with the whole set up once toe error is handled BUT these are theoretical. If you wrap your head around the arc intersect points in the earlier crappy sketch you'll see a halfway close usable range can be achieved. The arc intersect points and packaging is why double swings work much better.

[Tchajagos]

Dezurfer. Move driverside pivot up to the same axis as the cross over bar. Otherwise when your pitman arm moves the driverside bar is going to move a greater distance. Than the passenger side. Even with the single swinger The passenger side will move slightly different than the driverside due to the pitman arm/passenger pivot not lining up with the actual passenger beam pivot while the driverside is (or should be) lined up. A double swing steering set up will put both pivots inline with the beam pivots.

[Tchajagos]

Kind of confusing when I say driverside and passenger side since they cross over but I mean what wheel they attach too.

[Kel Fab Creations]

To piggyback off what the other guys are saying and to dumb it down to my level, if you stack the heims on the pitman (use the same bolt) you need to do the same on the swinger. Same goes for putting the heims next to each other (not sharing a bolt). Now match the measurements from center of mount pivot to center of heims on each of the arms. I screwed this up when I built my setup the first time and it took me too long to find out what I did wrong. I ended in looking at everything but what I explain above.

[Dezurfer]

If I put the swing at 6" will this work better for now? Or is the 4" radius messing things up too?

[Kel Fab Creations]

It doesn't matter what length you make the swinger. Having conflicting heim positions (read my last post) will screw it up.

Yes you can drive it that way but the suspension will squat turning one direction and rise turning the other. Ask me how I know.

[BDKW1]

It doesn't matter what length you make the swinger. Having conflicting heim positions (read my last post) will screw it up.

This^^^^^ you have leverage on the swinger which makes a faster motion ratio. Either move the drag link down on the swing to be inline with the tie rod or move the drag link in on the pitman are to match leverage ratios.

[BDKW1]

If you mount the drag link 3.45" out on the pitman, all will be good.