Transmission coolers

Seabass
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by Seabass »

I asked around about the bigger lines and was told it was all for nothing because the holes in the case where still smaller. I know these transmissions came behind diesels where the cases in those different or was I getting bad info.
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by philofab »

Seabass wrote:I asked around about the bigger lines and was told it was all for nothing because the holes in the case where still smaller. I know these transmissions came behind diesels where the cases in those different or was I getting bad info.
Bigger lines make a little bit of difference by themselves but drilling the case for a larger fitting is going to make this mod work the best. The only cases I have seen with bigger fittings from the factory were F450 and F550 cases with the PTO option and 4R100 transmissions. I have always done the larger fittings during a rebuild but I don't see why it couldn't be done to an existing transmission possibly in the truck. Be aware one is a check ball fitting and is needed to stop converter drain back. I believe our trucks are 5/16 and SD and larger trucks had 3/8. Adding a pressure bypass is also a good idea in case your external filter or cooler get plugged. I would just go to 1/2 lines if I am bothering to upgrade it.

If you are a cheap upgrade type of guy I think you may be able to work the factory fittings with a drill/lathe/mill for a little more flow.
robertcrav wrote:
philofab wrote:The biggest single upgrade for an E4OD is larger cooling lines to increase flow. I added a external Wix fluid power filter on mine which increases capacity buy 1-2 quarts.
bump for an old thread and for a post that I don't think got a lot of attention....

Philo, are you talking larger bent hard lines, or running flexible lines up to the front from the trans?
Larger bent hardlines or flexible line (steel braided) if you wanted too. I prefer hard lines on non race vehicles. Steel braided is easier to fix quickly on race stuff.\

If you want a huge cooler for your trans look into the aux trans cooler from a V10 Superduty. It's the size of the radiator.
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robertcrav
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by robertcrav »

philofab wrote: If you want a huge cooler for your trans look into the aux trans cooler from a V10 Superduty. It's the size of the radiator.
I picked up one of the 31row coolers from a 6.0L Superduty, and I've seen some install pics, but when I had the header panel off this weekend I couldn't figure out where/how I'd secure it...
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PaulW
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by PaulW »

robertcrav wrote:
philofab wrote:The biggest single upgrade for an E4OD is larger cooling lines to increase flow. I added a external Wix fluid power filter on mine which increases capacity buy 1-2 quarts.
bump for an old thread and for a post that I don't think got a lot of attention....

Philo, are you talking larger bent hard lines, or running flexible lines up to the front from the trans?
======
Your recommendations intuitively what most would agree with.
However, extra volume and bigger lines and a redundant filter are lacking in science and any benefit is highly suspect and probably one cannot measure any difference compared to stock.
Of course the vendors that sell the stuff violently disagree with me due to reduction in their bottom line.
Contrary to your suggestion most important thing a tranny needs is a huge after market cooler.
And a temp gauge to allow the driver to avoid overheat damage.

Paul
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by philofab »

To be honest, my 190K E4OD in my 96 would disagree with that. Factory cooler, 37" tires, lots of heavy towing, was still completely drivable before I had it rebuilt. Spent it's whole life in the Arizona heat. Probably the most reliable transmission I've ever had... right up there with all the Toyota stuff I've had.

There is a reason that Ford increased the line size, and I am not saying larger coolers are not a great idea. I just never needed one. Increasing line size will slow the fluid giving a cooler more time to scrub off heat.

To each their own... multiple solutions for the same problem.
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by Wrightracing.net »

I use to run one of those B&M coolers but even with the Fan in the Bronco AOD trans
it would get too hot in the Dunes at Glamis or the deep silt in baja.

I had the same issue in my F350 Superduty until I started running a 45,000GVW plate type
cooler.

I plan to run dual 45,000GVW coolers with shrouds and fans. I am also going over to a C6 and I have heard that they tend to
run cooler than the AOD.
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by PaulW »

David,
I might add that your cooler has the fan on the inefficient side. Suckers are better than pushers.
Reverse the install and it will cool better.
PW
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by robertcrav »

PaulW wrote:Suckers are better than pushers.
Reverse the install and it will cool better.
PW
Why is that Paul? If the fan is rotating the correct way??
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by PaulW »

Assuming the air is forced over the cooler fins. More air will move is the fan is sucking. Test results vary but the fundamental is less air is spilled the off to the side even tho there is a shroud present. Turns out that's the way the cooler people design the shroud.
Some companies even say it does not matter. Not true. Just sales pitch to sell.
Confirm by calling the engineer for the big cooler companies.
If fitment is an issue and a pusher is required Compensate by buying a bigger unit.
PW
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by robertcrav »

in that install, assuming the fan is a pusher, pushing air into/over the cooling fins, with out a shroud isn't the frame of the fan transparent as when the truck is moving, air moving over the fins is going to accelerate the fan?

Sorry I don't know any engineers at large cooling companies to confirm, just using my basic logic to understand... I'm not getting it ... :cry:
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by robertcrav »

This is on Flex a Lite's FAQ page...

Which type of electric fan is better, a pusher or puller ?
For primary use a puller. For auxiliary use a pusher.

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/frequent-questions/
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by Seabass »

How are you guys orienting the lines? In on the bottom out on the top? Is drain back an issue on these?

Anyone have a recommendation for inline filters?
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by philofab »

Seabass wrote:How are you guys orienting the lines? In on the bottom out on the top? Is drain back an issue on these?

Anyone have a recommendation for inline filters?
There is a one way valve in the fitting at the transmission so drain back is not an issue. I plumb which ever way works better for packaging.

I run a spin on Wix fluid power filter, it the identical size as a standard Ford. In a pinch an oil filter will work so replacements are easily found anywhere in the us or Mexico.
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by PaulW »

[quote="Seabass"]How are you guys orienting the lines? In on the bottom out on the top? Is drain back an issue on these?
==== ===
read this
http://bmracing.com/wp-bnmcont/uploads/ ... echdoc.pdf
PW
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by PaulW »

Seabass wrote: Anyone have a recommendation for inline filters?
========
Read what people that sell tranny filter kits say.
The real question should be why does one need a redundant filter? The tranny is already protected. The tranny cooler is not. In the case of a tranny that looses its internal components then an external filter might be worthwhile for the cooler? How many times has your tranny failed and put misc parts into the cooler. Do you know anyone where that happened?
The down side of an add on cooler other than cost is another leak path and another thing to cram into the truck.
PW
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by Seabass »

Thanks for the link Paul. As far as the filter goes the filter in the pan is required to allow fluid through no matter what even if that fluid has small contaminants. Ideally a bypass setup or a filter that would have a full flow bypass when clogged would be best. Some oem trans even have external filters nowdays.
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by Wrightracing.net »

I agree with the statement that the puller fan is better than a pusher. The cooler in that picture did not work that well in the sand dunes at Glamis. I pulled it and put a True Line 45,000 GVW Trans cooler without a fan and it works so much better. The trans does not go above 180° anymore, even on hot days with a heavy load.
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by robertcrav »

Wrightracing.net wrote:I agree with the statement that the puller fan is better than a pusher. The cooler in that picture did not work that well in the sand dunes at Glamis. I pulled it and put a True Line 45,000 GVW Trans cooler without a fan and it works so much better. The trans does not go above 180° anymore, even on hot days with a heavy load.
Do you have pics/part numbers for that cooler?
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by Wrightracing.net »

robertcrav wrote:
Wrightracing.net wrote:I agree with the statement that the puller fan is better than a pusher. The cooler in that picture did not work that well in the sand dunes at Glamis. I pulled it and put a True Line 45,000 GVW Trans cooler without a fan and it works so much better. The trans does not go above 180° anymore, even on hot days with a heavy load.
Do you have pics/part numbers for that cooler?
Tru-Cool # LPD4739, 40,000 GVW rating, 45,000 BTU rating
8 1/2 x 22 3/4 x 1 1/4 inch
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Re: Transmission coolers

Post by PaulW »

Seabass wrote:Thanks for the link Paul. As far as the filter goes the filter in the pan is required to allow fluid through no matter what even if that fluid has small contaminants. Ideally a bypass setup or a filter that would have a full flow bypass when clogged would be best. Some oem trans even have external filters nowdays.
==
The fancy ford SD Powerstroke had and external tranny filter which is gone now. I think the tradeoff of cost vs need was obvious. One filter is enough. Spend your dollars on a cooler and a T gauge.
PW
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