solid axle steering question..

[captain]

i was wondering about a steering setup i seen today. it ran a single swinger with a solid axle and a wierd box/mount. i was thinkin i could use the basic princible to releive bumpsteer, but im not 100% sure itll work. they idea would be to run a solid tierod between the spindles somwhat like stock, that connects to a dragling just inside the drivers knuckle, with the draglink goin up to a swinger mounted outside the pass. side framerail, which also has the rod connecting it to the pitman arm. obviously this would mean i would have to swap panhard mounts to swing from pass framerail to drivers side of axle also, but i would be making new mounts and bar anyways, so why not if it helps bumpsteer.i can picture it in my head working, maybe not eliminating it completly, but definitly helping. also it may give a better chance to add some length to draglink/panhard for more wheeltravel with less side to side movement. i know sombody will know if this will work better than me..

[MOSS2]

Must not be a Ford product? I would think it would eliminate a lot of unneccesary junk to try and get a steering box where it needs to be in the first place.

[philofab]

A swinger will not improve bump steer on a solid axle. Moving the pivots as far apart as possible and keeping the drag link parallel to the ground are the best you can do unless the drag link run fore and aft.

[captain]

its a 79 f150 frame, same as 78-79 broncos, posted here cause ive seen the threads on this subject and knew the responses would be great input from more experienced people. i guess i should have explained what the truck and plans are. im planning this build to keep the solid axle and trying to spend the time and design somthing thatll allow the max travel with coils. i already have wild horses 4" progressive rate coils, for the 78-79 bronco, and it would be nice to be able to use them. im jus not sure i can get the travel i want from them. i would like to break over 12". may have to go 6" deaver or even a custom coil. i think the real limiting factor will be panhard and steering. luckily this truck will never be raced, so i wont have any rules to follow.

every 4x4 ive seen jus used crossover, im sure because its tried and true, but i was trying to think outside the box. i know i need longest possible panhard/draglink parralel to each other, and to mount them as parralel as possible to the ground. thinking this way got me to the swinger. using a swinger on the pass framerail may possibly add length to the draglink, even if only a few inches, depending on the design. also since nothing is mounted to the pass framerail in front of the coilbucket, a panhard mount/swinger would have a lil more room to be positioned/gusseted. mounting the panhard on driver side of front diff may get slightly tricky though.

also, can you weld to the cast radius arm tube/mount things? i know not to weld cast, but they are welded to the tubes, right? and isnt the pumpkin also cast? ive seen many trusses welded to them too. im no professional, but do have good fab skills, so ive always stuck to steel that i know how to weld.

im sorry to write a book here, i think lately ive read just about every solid axle long travel post on the net, and this topic is very exciting to me and has my gears goin in my head allllllll day...

[philofab]

The few inches off added length will not be worth it for the additional cost and complexity. I was thinking of a leaf spring setup. With a panhard setup you can have very little bump steer just by matching the drag link and pan hard to each other. Too much travel and you will just break things with no gain.

[300]

The few inches off added length will not be worth it for the additional cost and complexity. Too much travel and you will just break things with no gain.

This is the exact answer to the question. I know somebody familiar with the 78-79 straightaxle, and it will reliably go 11 inches with factory pivot points and parts. Bump steer is about 1/4" from one end of the travel to the other, and it is hard to beat that. You can put a bellcrank on the axle to take care of the steering, but the panard bar will not survive with more than light use at more travel than that. You would have to go to wishbone type of link to eliminate the panard and you would be well into the additional cost and complexity territory. The Wild Horses springs are pretty good, however our experience might have been with the EB version that were a little light for a 78-79.

[captain]

adding useless complexity to the front is definitly not what i wana do. i guess i will just plan on making a custom draglink and panhard/mounts for strength and so they are equal length.

ive seen the blitzgrieg kit that gets 16" of travel with a panhard and crossover, and the moss's are strapped at 12" with close to stock componets, and ive built one ranger with a 78 hp44 and c/o, radius arm front using factory axle mounts, and it was strapped at 15". i think i could break 12-14" with coils if i set the radius arms/panhard up right. getting it to hold up to abuse is top prioirity so everything will be a lil overkill

[philofab]

...and the moss's are strapped at 12" with close to stock components...

Nothing stock about their components other than style & pivot location. Everything has been trussed/beefed up. Travel numbers are over rated, setup and tuning are more important. Their 12" of travel will outrun most if not all of our 16+" setups.

[captain]

...and the moss's are strapped at 12" with close to stock components...

Nothing stock about their components other than style & pivot location. Everything has been trussed/beefed up. Travel numbers are over rated, setup and tuning are more important. Their 12" of travel will outrun most if not all of our 16+" setups.

yeah sorry i meant stock pivot points. i think im just over thinkin how to put this thing together and its makin it more difficult than it should be..

[300]

Granted they had a little more wheelbase to work with, the Hall Hummers used to really do some amazing stuff with only 8" of travel and a ton of shock technology and tuning.

[ESHALLBETTER]

Samco fab built a bitchen dodge solid axle truck. Go to their site and check out how they got zero bump steer.

[shockseals.com]

...and the moss's are strapped at 12" with close to stock components...

Travel numbers are over rated, setup and tuning are more important.

and thats the truth...ive got coilover/bypass and swinger steering and people ask if I have 18+ inches of travel...I measured it the other day...13.5 and it will take most people. Why so little travel? I didnt want my heater box taken out or any rubbing so I killed about 2" there and I wanted my c/o mounted where it is mounted and if it droops more the coil hits the frame so thats my droop limit. If I remove the airbump and cycle with the bypass on only I have 19", no binding anywhere but the truck doesnt need to go any faster than it already does.

Travel numbers dont mean shit.

Sorry for the tangent but just wanted to add to the point that travel isnt everything. Build a solid rig, dial it in and you will be faster than most.

[magic carpet XLT]

captain, did you happen to get a pic or a link of the steering in question?

[captain]

http://offroaddesign.com/K5morph.htm

if you go down towards the bottom he it has pics of the steering. he moved his steering box to the pass side and had to run this setup. i also have seen a kit for suzukis that does exactly what i had talked about.

i never thought go fast was only about travel, im just very new to this and thought travel was high on the list. the more i research the more i learn its shocks and tuning, tuning, tuning. i plan on tearing the truck down soon, needs a lil work here and there, so i figured now would be the time to do some major mods/reinforcing to the front suspension. any input would be helpful, i want to plan as much as possible before i tear it down so im not lost when i do...

[magic carpet XLT]

interesting, seems like a lot of complexity added for very little gain tho.

[captain]

Samco fab built a bitchen dodge solid axle truck. Go to their site and check out how they got zero bump steer.

ive been looking at that setup, dont really like the use of a chain, specially since i do wana street drive this truck, and to do somthing like that on the f150 front would require chevy/jeep/dodge knuckle. not a big deal, but more to add. ive reall been contemplating a wishbone link though, because it loses the panhard. ive also been looking at the 55 chevy in the new off-road mag that uses a similar setup. i was thinking it would be possible to build this setup using the stock radius arm mounts on the axle, and bringing the links back toward the center of a crossmember. the hardest thing would be steering, as the box would be under the cab and im not sure how you would make the steering shafts do the u-turn...