Solid axle tech.

MOSS2
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by MOSS2 »

Dust wrote:That looks like a 78/79 axle and if so the tube comes out of the center housing and then goes into a cast steel section then back to tube and into the forged "C".
If you weld it to the cast section you should pre/post heat it, and I would weld it with TIG and 308 SS filler.
Not that it can't be MIG'd but you may find it cracking... Why Ford had Dana build this way eludes me.
For a stronger housing over-all look for an F250 D44 in the 78/79 era, and convert it back to 5-lug with your outers. Thicker tube walls, etc, and IIRC it is an inch or two wider, but I could be wrong there.
If I was to do another 78/9 to go fast I would run the F250 D44 front, using the wedgies that several companies sell if I stayed with OE R-Arms, and or a derivative of the "Cage" SAS arm mount if not staying with the OE-Ford arms. I would run GM Knuckles and brakes, followed with a pre-77 D60 in the rear with upgraded shafts; to narrow the rear track a bit over the later rear axles... Hmmmmm... that is exactly what I am going to do with one of the rolling chassis :lol:
Maybe so .. but.. we have never had a problem with any of the cast steel portion or tubes. We mig weld the truss to them with a little preheat and have never had a crack there. We do not brace the top of the C just the truss is tied into the bottom. The problem area is the cast iron pumpkin for strength in these it will break in half long before the tubes bend in my opinion.

Whats the matter Nick dont have a thing for 'Cougars'??
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Nick
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Nick »

MOSS2 wrote: Whats the matter Nick dont have a thing for 'Cougars'??
She is sexy... :oops:

btw, at my age, a cougar would end up being in her 70's.
"If at first you don't succeed, it may be cheaper to buy it."
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SteveG
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by SteveG »

MOSS2 wrote:Whats the matter Nick dont have a thing for 'Cougars'??
Cougar... hahaha!
Sho nuff,
SteveG
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johncharlesb
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by johncharlesb »

Nick wrote:
MOSS2 wrote: Whats the matter Nick dont have a thing for 'Cougars'??
She is sexy... :oops:

btw, at my age, a cougar would end up being in her 70's.
There is nothing wrong with a 70's cougar. Some consider them quite attractive.

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Dust
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Dust »

This thread is full of Old Ford porn... :lol:
Berne
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Berne »

MOSS2 wrote:
Maybe so .. but.. we have never had a problem with any of the cast steel portion or tubes. We mig weld the truss to them with a little preheat and have never had a crack there. We do not brace the top of the C just the truss is tied into the bottom. The problem area is the cast iron pumpkin for strength in these it will break in half long before the tubes bend in my opinion.

any pics of said front axle trussing?

about to start another 78/79 build....curious what others have done to the 79/79 front-ends for trussing. Are you guys really still running a "stock" front axle? How often do you go through them?

--B
300
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by 300 »

Link to the truss in question.

http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/sho ... .php?t=220

The axle in the picture had a very short and unhappy life thanks to a rock at the Vegas to Reno race in about 2007. A strap has been added to the top of the axle to combat hits to the pumpkin on the next version. Don't think there has been one to go more than 10,000 race miles yet. They have all started out straight from 78/79 Broncos. All of this welding causes unavoidalble distortion to the housing, and the gear guy is complaining about difficulty setting up the gear sets.
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Dust »

300 wrote:Link to the truss in question.

http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/sho ... .php?t=220

Don't think there has been one to go more than 10,000 race miles yet.

That is a bunch more miles then I expected!
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Berne »

Dust wrote:
300 wrote:Link to the truss in question.

http://www.thewebwheeler.com/forums/sho ... .php?t=220

Don't think there has been one to go more than 10,000 race miles yet.

That is a bunch more miles then I expected!

No $hit......


10,000 race miles.....I can think of alot of racecars that don't make it nearly that far.

thanks for the pics. Now onto the internal debate about how much ground clearance I'm willing to give up.

A fab'd front housing would be nice.....

--B
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Dust »

Berne wrote:
A fab'd front housing would be nice.....

--B
I still have a set of D60 "C's" & Knuckles...
Add one of Dan's housings and a High9; 35-spline side to side, one of these days, when money grows on trees :lol:
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Berne »

Dust wrote:
Berne wrote:
A fab'd front housing would be nice.....

--B
I still have a set of D60 "C's" & Knuckles...
Add one of Dan's housings and a High9; 35-spline side to side, one of these days, when money grows on trees :lol:

True.......but....

its just a downhill slide involving cubic dollars at that point. I'm sure there's gotta be...."something" better....or...."as good" as a stock 44, but lighter/stronger/cheaper..

a couple corners of it, are cheap/available/LIGHT/strong-enough outters. A stock 60 outter is HUGE and way heavy. Sure, it'd be way stronger than the D44 stuff, but, I'd bet if you hang D60 stuff on the end of that fab'd 9", its going to be heavier than a truss'd D44.
How often to the Moss's have an "outer failure"....ball joint, wheelbearing, broken spindle....etc????

the problem w/ one of the pipe dreams in my head is that I'm not sure there's a D44 inner C out there that you could punch out to a 3.5"+ bore for a big axle tube.
then you could go w/ some sort of hybrid axle and run a D44 outter.

This idea has been kicked around lately....we've talked about how to make our 4400 car faster in a pure desert race where we don't need a 50* steering D60 w/ weighted stickys....
talking about trying to run a late model Toy landcruiser high-pinion 3rd, in a fab'd housing with thin-ish 3.5"-4" tubes and D44 outters and axles. If run w/ a 35" tire and open diff, the R&P might survive (thats our biggest question really)..

--B
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Dust »

... I hear ya, there is a gap. Add "go fast" in there and you have weight...
300
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by 300 »

One broken spindle. Have never had a ball joint break, but change them about twice a season, and have used every brand there is. Zero broken C's or knuckles, but the ball joints do wallow out some times. Zero axle problems since going to alloy axles and CTM joints. Actually, axle failure stopped after switching to full circle retainer clips.
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by Dust »

300 wrote:One broken spindle. Have never had a ball joint break, but change them about twice a season, and have used every brand there is. Zero broken C's or knuckles, but the ball joints do wallow out some times. Zero axle problems since going to alloy axles and CTM joints. Actually, axle failure stopped after switching to full circle retainer clips.
I can see this. While I am surprised that you get a housing to live as long as you do, I have never broken more then a U-joint on a D44 if given good preventative maintenance.
CTM (and other similar in design) specifically recommended I not run their joints because I regularly run Hubs-in for 6-months of the year.
The RCV CV looks like it might be a solution.

Actually I've been wondering for a long time about why CV's had not been applied to the SA, and I really wonder why not in the TTB...
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magic carpet XLT
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Re: Solid axle tech.

Post by magic carpet XLT »

Dust wrote: Forget leaf-springs in the front. Mine rides nice, soaks up the bumps and I have I think something like 3" before the spring hits the frame..... Fine in a work truck but a bit harsh in a go fast :lol:
i have 7" of uptravel before complete bottom out. my axle truss just barely touches my engine cross member actually. if i went spring under and modified the cross member i could easily get 2" more at the same ride height, or a 2" lower ride height. it cycles right around 12" in front (with 14" shocks). not bad for junkyard leaves, and $300 total in shocks. i dunno, they aren't the greatest solution but they are a real bargain alternative, especially if you are not a racer or supporting a race team. i have plenty of fun and it does much better than a lot of my other rock crawling buddies rigs. shock tuning and suspension geometry are far more important than whether or not you have leaves or a 4 link and coil overs. radius arms are pretty damn simple tho, not much to mess up and they are a lot easier to package than a 3 link.
300 wrote:Actually, axle failure stopped after switching to full circle retainer clips.
true words, so many people waste money on high dollar shafts and joints without realizing that the half circle clips are the biggest problem with broken shafts/joints etc, spicer stuff is really good especially the cold forged joints and new production shafts (not junkyard replacements).
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