Negative Camber problems

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:25 am

Hey guys,

So I took my truck to get aligned the other day, as I haven't had it done since I re-did all suspension and replaced all tie rods and components. The truck was aligned before when it had on a 6" rough country lift and everything was able to go into spec. However, this was the first alignment I have done (well professional anyway, I usually do a tape measure alignment) with the new deaver/bilstein setup.

The shop was able to get everything into spec with the exception of camber. I have a negative camber problem with the driver side sitting at about -2.5* and the passenger sitting at -3*. I was told I would need some sort of camber/caster alignment bushing. So a couple of questions:

1) With the previous rough country lift, shouldn't there have been an alignment cam in there already?
2) My deaver coils are used quite a bit so they more than likely are sagged (unsprung new = 22", mine are 20") - could this be a reason for negative camber?
3) How much of a camber bushing should I look for? If I am at -3*, should I look for something that is close to -2.5 to +2.5*? I think the spec range was -0.06 to 0.08*.

Any thoughts and input is appreciated. Thank you!

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:26 am

I forgot to also note that I am on drop brackets, not C&T.

hollandermotorsports · Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:05 am

I would start by picking up a set of new coils. I would guess you have adjustable cam bushings that they have already maxed out and you are still left with -3*. This is purely speculation on my part but they probably got it the best they could meaning you need more than 3* adjustment. No matter what 3* is a lot to ask out of a cam bushing. This is why I would suggest a fresh set of coils.

Tchajagos · Post by **Tchajagos** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:38 am

Are they the variable rate deaver springs like these?

Because these are not 6" lift. They are more around 5"-4.5" after you break them in.

If you look at the tops of your steering knuckle ball joints you should be able to see if it has the adjustable cams. They might be gold or silver.

http://shop.broncograveyard.com/mobile/ ... nfo/33520/

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:32 am

Tchajagos,
They are the progressive rate springs - Deaver F64C I believe is the part number. I do know that they are labeled as 5.5" but do compress once broken in.
The drop bracket that is on the truck (homemade from previous owner) is 4". It is a mess trying to fix what the guy had done to it before me. My buddy and I tape measure aligned it with the deavers before because we found out the toe was the issue - not camber - and that fixed it but there has been many wheeling trips and parts replaced since then. So I do not know why now it is not able to be aligned properly or to within spec.

I don't know off the top of my head about it already having adjustable cams, I will look when I get home today after work and report back.

Post by **SteveG** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:18 am

2.5-3 degrees is a lot to correct. Did you say you already have the adjustable cams in it?

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:02 pm

SteveG wrote:2.5-3 degrees is a lot to correct. Did you say you already have the adjustable cams in it?

I'm not 100% on it already having adjustable cams. I tried looking at it and referencing a picture that one of the other members posted, but they are to dirty and rusted to tell.
I will snap a picture when I get off and post it up.

I thought -3* was quite a bit to correct as well - however, it doesn't look to horrific on the truck. It is definitely noticeable, but it drives fine. I just don't want to wear the crap out of my tires.

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:28 pm

Little update guys, I ended up scoring on some coilovers. So now the truck is sitting on some 2.5x12 sway ways with a 500/600 spring rate. I set my preload initially at 3/4" on both sides, and my passenger was sitting at around -5* camber. While my driver was sitting around -2,-3*. I cranked the preload to about 1"-1-1/8" preload and it brought the driver side into about -1*, and the passenger is at around -3.

Any idea how much further I need to set my preload? Or is there something else that I need to look at?

I posted this in my build thread - so feel free to reply in there. That way we avoid double posting if that is not allowed.

Tchajagos · Post by **Tchajagos** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:45 pm

It will be a really easy to tell if you have adjustable cams. Look at the top balljoints. Is the metal bushing under the large nut smooth or does it have notches around it? Smooth is a fixed bushing. Notched is the adjustable one. If it has another smaller flat piece that's hex shaped between the bushing and nut then it's a double adjustable (extreme angle) alignment cam.

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:26 pm

Tchajagos,

It looks as if it is adjustable then because the bushing below the nut does have a series of notches. Almost looks like a gear with a few teeth.

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:02 am

Tchjagos,

Here is a picture of the upper balljoint for reference.

: upper balljoint; IMG_3538.JPG (597.34 KiB) Viewed 971 times

hollandermotorsports · Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:59 am

That is adjustable but I feel really bad for whoever tries to adjust it. Looks to be rusted in. I would highly recommend soaking with pb blaster for a week or so before you mess with it at all. And but a new set of cams. Try to keep semi equal preload in your front shocks and there is not a magic number uniform for preload across the board. There are a ton of factors to take into play like springs, position of the shock on the beam, rake of the shock, off set of wheels, length of springs and length of shock, size of motor, bumper, and on and on. Preload and cross over ring set up is vehicle and driver specific. Here is where I would start if it was mine or a customers vehicle. Soak in PB Blaster spray once a day for a week. Buy new alignment cams. Buy new ball joints judging by the pic they have some miles on them and probably going to have to pull the knuckle to get the front end right. Also probably do wheel bearings while you are apart. Could the wheel bearings be causing your camber issue? It would probably be worth jacking up to check I have seen crazier things. If you do your self buy a camber caster gauge or just take to an alignment shop and have them do it.

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:18 am

Thanks Hollander for the advice. I checked the ball joints a while back and they seemed to be okay. I did the method where you jack the truck up to get the tire off the ground, and then wiggle the tire in and out (I think that was the way?). There was no play at all, but would probably be worth double checking for sure.

I agree with the alignment cams, I think it would be best to get some new ones on there seeing as those do have some age.

JonMac31 · Post by **JonMac31** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:58 am

Okay so I was able to crank my preload on the coil overs to 1.5" and my camber finally came back. There is a little bit of positive camber, but I haven't determined if that is while under load or as it sits.
My toe is now out of wack, but that is easy to correct so no biggy there. I am just glad I don't have to deal with a drift bronco anymore!