Sag pump conversions

[yikes]

P-pump or TC? Text me the price 760-419-094three

Sorry...P pump.

[yikes]

One thing I forgot to mention on the TC install. I had to mill/face .170??? I believe from the factory bracket to achieve alignment, because the adapter plate, combined with the bolt heads stacked up much higher than the factory flange bolts.

[Border Bronco]

Having problems after upgrading my power steering yesterday, looking to see if I can garner some advice with the Sag pump conversion.

What I have: 94 bronco, 17x9 Race line 295/70/17 Terra Grapplers, Threat Motorsports complete front end Std. width including double swing steering setup.

I finished installing the lift approx. a month ago and noticed right away, that the C2 was pump was struggling. I could not turn the wheels while sitting static. So I pulled the trigger and completed the Sag conversion. I procured a bracket and pulley from my local pull a part off a 94 e-150. I purchased the belt (103.65") pump and high pressure line for a 94 e-150 new from Napa. I deleted the factory power steering return line fabricated a bracket and installed a B&M cooler out in front of the condenser. The return line from the gear box through the power steering cooler to the pump is -8 AN. I have added fluid and ensured all components have filled with fluid. I jacked it up and turned the wheels full stop both directions at least a dozen times, rechecked fluid. I went for test drive and it is now worse than it was with the C2 pump. I ran out of daylight for today, tomorrow I am going to get an -8 AN coupler to bypass the cooler and see if it causing any restriction/cavitation, etc. I am relatively new to the scene and still learning a lot. When I installed the double swing steering, one of the first things i noticed is i can now go from straight steering wheel to full stop in either direction in about 1.5+/- turns, where as before with the stock steering it seemed more like a full 2 turns. It almost seems like the steering box is just not able to handle the larger tires and double swing steering setup, leading me to believe that a ram might be the real fix. After reading reviews about the Sag swap being such an improvement, I was disappointed with my results. I think my steering is the variable that yielded me different results from others. Any input is appreciated. Thank you, George

[VintageIronFab]

Sounds like you just simply have air in the system still-- the sag conversion is a great one - I think the larger return lines are typically on the remote res applications but I could be wrong.

[PaulW]

Agree with concern about air in the system. Wrench on all your fittings. Then put your "Mityvac" pump on the thing and see if you get foam.
* Otherwise what is the source of your pump? Some remans have been found to be genuine junk.
* Show us the cooler pic. Is it a PS cooler or one that was designed for another application like motor or trans?
* -8 AN is way overkill since there is little pressure involved and most guys use 3/8"elastomer (rubber?) PS hose return to/from cooler. AN need to be pretty tight to prevent leaks. Not so much with hose. Yes, I have had all those leaks with both kinds - bummer to find the leaks.
* Last of all have you verified your steering linkage has free operation? Meaning are the rods are adjusted such that one of them is not fighting the others.

[Border Bronco]

Thanks guys, for your feedback, It rained this weekend up here in Fresno, I didn't feel well enough to brave the weather, so I took a break from it this weekend.

I will get some pics of my setup, both P/S cooler and steering setup

Pump is a BBB reman from Napa

Cooler is a Plate and fin, I have read that the tube and fin are a better way to go. I had it on a shelf, so it was a used in convenience (we'll see how convenient it was when I have to redo, Haha).

I used the push on, not the high pressure type AN fittings, and am using 1/2" transmission line, went on very tight and have not seen any leeks at these locations. However I did see some seepage from the high pressure line at the gearbox. I went -8an for future plans. I'd like to add the Howe remote reservoir with filter with the cooler and didn't want any restriction in flow with all that additional stuff, at that time I will find a new reservoir can and have a AN bung welded in.

when I jacked it up and got it off its wheels I could move the wheels back and forth freely with my hand, everything seemed to function properly, i.e. no bind.

I'll double check the fittings and ensure all is tight. Next, I'll couple the return line and bypass the cooler to see if that has any affect, if that fixes it, then I will go find a tube and fin cooler to replace it with. If no change with those modifications, any recommendations on a good pump with the local parts houses, or should I go with PSC, Howe?

[Border Bronco]

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[Border Bronco]

Hey Vintage, these were the stock beams I bought from you off Craigslist back in AZ a couple years ago.

[VintageIronFab]

That's cool! Who's swinger kit did you use or is that something you built?

[dtbback]

Looks like the Threat double swinger kit.

[Border Bronco]

Yes, Threats steering, very pleased with the fit and finish its quality stuff. I'm going to try and get some pics of the PS cooler I installed when I get home tonight.

[VintageIronFab]

I was wondering does it have flats milled into the tubes?

[Border Bronco]

No, I wish it did.I spent a lot of time doing a two-part Apoxy paint job and now it's all scratched up. Happened when I dropped it off to get it aligned, I was not happy

[Border Bronco]

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[Border Bronco]

I had a little time today, after work to do some troubleshooting.

1. I tightened all the fittings, got movement out of all of them, especially the high pressure line at the gear box.

2. Disconnected the steering from the pitman arm so I could get full deflection in both directions without the steering limiting my travel and allow a complete purge of any air. Went back and forth about 20 cycles the last 10 or so we're done slowly. Re-connected steering to pitman arm.

3. Took the power steering cooler out of the loop by coupling the two lines together allowing fluid to go from the output of the gearbox right back to the pump reservoir.

None of this effort made a bit of difference. It still won't steer while sitting static. I'm beginning to think I have a bad pump out of the box.

[PaulW]

And we have had ok success with the rebuilt Cardone's

[Border Bronco]

Okay, just got off the phone with Carquest, they seem to be the only parts house I could find that carry Cardone in this area.

Thank you Paul, I'll give that pump a try this weekend. What are you running for fluid in that pump?

[cs_drums]

Mercon V

[PaulW]

I have run several fluids in 2 different Sag pumps Ford ATF, and Amsoil ATF. Specs are better for Amsoil. Cannot tell the difference. All my PS setups have a simple Summit PS cooler. My 72 has Hydro, and ram. My 96 has ram and no hydro.
Best I can tell by asking the various high end suppliers of pump stuff the GM PS fluid probably is the best available.
However now days people like Howe sell PS fluid with their label and sure enough Howe no longer recommends the GM stuff.
I am sure the Mercon is good stuff as well and I would not hesitate to use it.
Maybe it does not really matter???
I Recommend a filter as well. And that is another research project. I use Magnafine with pushon hose. Probably not the best choice. Matching the pump flow rate to filter flow rate with low micron rating is the key. Good luck on you investigation.

[SteveG]

In my opinion, if you're relying on fluid to make or break a power steering system, you're already operating on the ragged edge.