Sag pump conversions

[PaulW]

What I know after doing 2 different styles
Briefly: For a serp setup:
90s E150 came with the Sag. Get a rebuilt Cardone, E150 high-pressure line, make a slight mod to the bracket for a good fit. If you have a 96 then you will need new bolts because they changed sizes - metric from the hardware store. The E150 bracket is usually found for a low mount pump and a high mount AC.

Details:
Suggest you get the above JY bracket with pump "canned ham" & pulley and high-pressure line. Use the bracket and 5/8" serp pulley and exchange the pump for the Cardone. NAPA has the high pressure line if the JY one doesn’t fit.
No change required for the belt.
Then spend hours getting the air out. Use a Mityvac hand pump, and still spend hours getting the bubbles out.

Older vee belt trucks:
Use the bracket above and probably the high-pressure line?
Pulleys are an issue. The standard Sag has a 5/8" shaft and Bronco/F150/Mustang have a 1/2" shaft. Go to a vendor for a pulley or to a vendor supplied Sag pump with the ford shaft? Do a search for other solutions.

I have done both, but the 72 has an unknown bracket without the AC provision - maybe a Mustang?. Anyway the EB vendors have the brackets for both the high mount or the low mount - your choice . Use whatever fits.
Paul

[philofab]

Here is a picture of Cardone part # 20-6244



This pump is availible at O'rileys/Checker/Kragen/Shucks for about $80 not including core.

[PaulW]

In the pic upper left is the 95E150 real Sag pump, bottom is the 96 bracket ac & lower pump. The Ford plastic pump above the bracket and an unsued pump bracket. Unknown application. High press hoses are from the 96. 2 pulleys the serp from the 96 was unused because it was a 1/2" like the vee belt one. I used the large shaft one off the e150sag for my install.

Next pic shjows the vendor pump like the previous post. It also is a sag but has the ford shaft and small res.

IMO find the cardon # for the teardrop res since it holds more fluid. Reply if you need the correct Cardone # and I will seach my records.
Paul

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[David Kennedy]

Here is a picture of Cardone part # 20-6244



This pump is availible at O'rileys/Checker/Kragen/Shucks for about $80 not including core.

I thought this pump was discontinued? Have you bought one recently?

[philofab]

I thought this pump was discontinued? Have you bought one recently?

I ordered it on Wednesday and it was delivered to my shop on Friday morning of last week.

[Vintage Iron Fab]

I was thinking for those that are so inclined -- that on some common Ford vans -- that the serpentine A/C-power steering pump bracket used a common Saginaw "canned-ham" pump. I was just thinking for the ease of sourcing parts and replacement when the other dies.

[shockseals.com]

Whats the advantage of this pump over stock?

[SteveG]

The stock pumps are weak and always make noise. They pretty much go away when hot.

[philofab]

Something that may be good to know:

Two possible "inverted flare" fittings (one 5/8-18" & one 11/16-18") for early (to 1977) pumps.
Two possible "o-ring" fittings (one 16mm & one 18mm) for later (1978+) pumps.

The pressure fittings unscrew from the pump and all four can be interchanged. The 16mm one will fit late model (My 93) stock lines.

[shockseals.com]

where does the term "canned ham" come from? Because it looks like a can of ham?

Does the Cardone 20-6244 need the mounting bracket from the E150 to bolt into a 96 Bronco or just the high pressure hose and pulley?

[philofab]

where does the term "canned ham" come from? Because it looks like a can of ham?

Does the Cardone 20-6244 need the mounting bracket from the E150 to bolt into a 96 Bronco or just the high pressure hose and pulley?

My "Cardone 20-6244" pump bolted in and used the stock hose when I swapped the output fitting. I think mine had the wrong fitting though.

[PaulW]

Whats the advantage of this pump over stock?

===
SteveG is correct. I went to the trouble of looking up the specs for my 96 Ford and the replacement caned ham Sag. The Ford had higher pressure and more flow. Just goes to show that the numbers lie. The Sag is a better performig pump in every way.
Here are some facts to calarify what I said before:
With regard to the two Sag pumps being discussed. If you have AC then it is advisable to go with the E150 bracket/pulley/Ford high press line, and canned ham style like Ford did.
The other one with the smaller res uses the no-AC "U" aftermarket bracket and can be obtained from Cardone with the smaller Ford shaft (as used on my non AC 72 Bronco).
Canned ham refered to is Cardone # 20-7878 or the same thing from Ford for the E150. Common availability. It has the Ford high pressure fitting.
The small res with the Ford shaft is a specialty item from vendors like BC Broncos. Don't remember about the fitting , but I have a reciept for a NAPA fitting adapter and for sure that adapter was not used for the 96?
Study my post with the stuff laying on the floor to see both brackets and the large res canned ham pump. The other pic with the yellow cage tube has the vendor Sag/"U" bracket set up with a small res and the ford shaft. I do not have the Cardone # for that pump as it came with the Bronco. Philofab, does the 20-6244 have the Ford or GM shaft?

BTW, The E150 conversion has been used on many countless Broncos as documented on the now defunct Big Bronco list and they never discussed using the small res, small shaft, "U" bracket Sag. I suppose the reason is that most want to keep the AC ?
Paul

[shockseals.com]

where does the term "canned ham" come from? Because it looks like a can of ham?

Does the Cardone 20-6244 need the mounting bracket from the E150 to bolt into a 96 Bronco or just the high pressure hose and pulley?

My "Cardone 20-6244" pump bolted in and used the stock hose when I swapped the output fitting. I think mine had the wrong fitting though.

Stock replacement...I like that. What year is your bronco? From Pauls post it sounds as if you NEED to use the E150 mount to run a sag pump on a bronco, but it is only needed if you run the particular pump he ran and not the 20-6244. Good to know there is a direct replacement so no mods or junk yarding is necessary.

[philofab]

Mine is a 93 5.0 with A/C. The fitting that came with my pump had a 5/8-18 fitting and the stock hose uses a 16mm. Luckily I have about 30 pumps here at the shop for cores. I just got a 16mm fitting from another pump. I did not use the "canned ham" version.

The adapter on mine consists of the U-bracket adapter and a screw on shaft extension.

I've had the pump for quite a while now and I'm very happy with it. Less noise than stock and no more fade after 10 minutes of use. "Feel" is better too.

[toddz69]

where does the term "canned ham" come from? Because it looks like a can of ham?

Yes. I first heard the term from Tom Lee many years ago.

I prefer the Saginaw conversion with the E150 bracket myself for several reasons:

1. 20-6244 pumps are sometimes sketchy with availability so if you need one *fast* or in BFE, you might be SOL.
2. The 20-6244 pump doesn't have an OEM application - it's a custom Cardone-only unit.
3. The shaft is longer than stock and is a smaller dia. than an OEM Saginaw shaft, increasing the loading on it. A few years ago a buddy who was running the pump on his EB (factory serp setup so the tension was correct) heard an awful clunk in his engine compartment and lost his steering. The shaft on his 20-6244 pump had sheared off!

Todd Z.

[SteveG]

where does the term "canned ham" come from? Because it looks like a can of ham?

Yes. I first heard the term from Tom Lee many years ago.

I prefer the Saginaw conversion with the E150 bracket myself for several reasons:

1. 20-6244 pumps are sometimes sketchy with availability so if you need one *fast* or in BFE, you might be SOL.
2. The 20-6244 pump doesn't have an OEM application - it's a custom Cardone-only unit.
3. The shaft is longer than stock and is a smaller dia. than an OEM shaft, increasing the loading on it. A few years ago a buddy who was running the pump on his EB (factory serp setup so the tension was correct) heard an awful clunk in his engine compartment and lost his steering. The shaft on his 20-6244 pump had sheared off!

Todd Z.

Good info. Thanks!

[philofab]

The shaft adapter and u-bracket will transfer to a regular GM Sag pump. I messed around with it on the bench so I could fix it in a jam if needed. I also thought about swapping resi with the canned ham version, but I did not want to void the warranty.


You are correct that the pump does see more leverage from the shaft extension. I have had no problems at this point yet.

[cs_drums]

Bringing this thread back.

I have recently done the sag conversion with the e150 bracket.

I need to go back to the stock c2 style bracket but want to keep the sag pump.

Has anyone adapted a regular sag pump to the stock bronco/f150 c2 bracket?

PCS makes an adapter
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/ford-5-0- ... 133834.jpg[/img]

This is to be used with there pump. Is the e150 pump significantly different? or would I be able to through this adapter on, trim the bracket to clear the pump and mount it up?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[PaulW]

Let me say it again for clarity
I suppose if you use the PSC bracket it would be wise to use their pump? Only PSC will know if it will fit other pumps. Mix and match is always a hassle in my experience.
I looked at various adaptors to allow a Sag to replace the C2, and when I found a JY E150 unit for $10 I stopped considering other options. Turns out a little clearincing was required and for my 96 I had to get different AC bolts. Clearincing was required because I did not get the exact replacement for the E150 unit? It was a nice conversion and the E150 high pressure line fit just fine.
I have two different variations of the Sag pumps on my two Broncos. The unit on my 96 is referred to as the "Ham can" unit. The unit on my 72 is a newer version with a long filler. Both are single return units. From what I have read the performance is the same for the various Sag pumps. Look at http://www.bcbroncos.com/powersteering.html for pictures of various Sag pumps. The one on my 72 is not pictured but has the same interface as the ones in the BCB pictures
The usual drill is go the JY and get a throwaway Sag pump then exchange it for a Cardone rebuilt one at the local parts store. Buy the E150 High pressure line from NAPA and use the E150 bracket from the JY or from EBay. BTW when I sent my Cardone ham can unit to Tom Lee he modified it for my ram and he said the pump was as good as new when he got it. (It had the small shaft).
TIP: Beware - ford Sags use a smaller shaft than GM does. Seems like ½ vs 5/8, but don’t quote me as my memory fails. If you get an E150 Sag and bracket separately and get the large shaft then go to the parts store and buy a pulley with the correct shaft diameter and the same overall diameter as the stock ford one. When swapping the JY unit for a Cardone make sure you get the small shave version to make things simple.

[cs_drums]

Thanks for the info. The e150 bracket is definitely the way to go in fortunately it will not work in my application.

So the pumps came with a 1/2" or 5/8" shaft? That's good info.

Are there variances in shaft length as well?