Lets Talk Full Floater

[ChaseTruck754]

The 2.25" narrower is why I started looking into machining the stock hubs vs. buying those aftermarket ones.

As for the drive plates - drewbee88 - you got a link to the ones you found?

I've got one of the super 14 dropouts I will be using with a fabricated housing on my next build. My plan was to use stock axles and hubs for ease of finding replacements. I do like the idea of having both axles the same size so I can carry just 1 spare though - although this will make pinion not centered. My thought on this was to hopefully find a stock length axle that would work and then use either the SRW or DRW hubs to mess with track width.

This will take some searching around & trial/error to get track width right I think, but with the couple different configurations of the 14 bolt axles I think it's doable.

I had a SRW 14 bolt donor and here's what I got axle length wise.
Driver Side Axle = 31.75" (+/- 35.5" from outside drive flange to CL of pinion)
Pass. Side Axle = 37.5" also (+/- 35.5" from outside drive flange to CL of pinion)

[drewbee88]

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/RCV ... 26753.html here's a link to the rcv drive plates

[drewbee88]

http://www.kickassoffroad.com/kick_ass_ ... al_003.htm

[Wrightracing.net]

Thanks, Those are what I was thinking of.

I have put trusses, spring tabs and so on.
But one of the things I had a question about is axle seals.
Are these type of seal any good or just axle bling.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Tra ... 29277.html

So my thought is to start my Parts list for a 9" with 14 bolt snouts. I need to find a hub or modify them myself. Also I know I may have to open up the 5 lug center to fit over the drive plates on the hub.

[Wrightracing.net]

Ok, here is a twist on the Full Floater revisited.

What do you think of the Full Floater versus the unit bearing style rear ends. I know the thinking in the past was the unit bearings were definitely weaker but is that still the case nowadays .

What do you think.

David Wright

[24hours]

Spidertrax sure does have a great reputation in the Ultra 4 world.

[Wrightracing.net]

Spidertrax sure does have a great reputation in the Ultra 4 world.

Yes, I have seen those. I was not sure how well they would hold up to Baja style prerunner abuse compared to a full floated.

David Wright

[PaulW]

When installing a full floater the bearings have to have a spacer between them. If i were to do it again I would look into a unit bearing. I wonder if the housing could accept the big UB Sandy cone does the spacer correctly on a big 9"
What the spacer does is make 2 bearings work like a UB to prevent bearing race movement.
Burt what the H do I know?

[mobil1syn]

currie has a full float unit bearing they put on JK axles and they are fat pigs.
https://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-8000X555S35
https://www.currieenterprises.com/unit- ... department

spidertrax
http://www.spidertrax.com/products/Unit-Bearings

my u4 friends arent seeing failures, these are competitive cars being pushed.

[mobil1syn]

currie has a full float unit bearing they put on JK axles and they are fat pigs.
https://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-8000X555S35
https://www.currieenterprises.com/unit- ... department

spidertrax
http://www.spidertrax.com/products/Unit-Bearings

my u4 friends arent seeing failures, these are competitive cars being pushed.

[Wrightracing.net]

I like the idea of the snout, bearing and hub setup all in one unit for $600.

I am considering the Currie Ultimate 35 spline unit bearing conversion on my Currie 9+ rear axle. That may be my upgrade when I'm ready to loose the 31 spline stuff.

David Wright

[Wrightracing.net]

I am torn between this kit also when I get to the point when I do my rear axle.

This full floated Dana 60 conversion with 5 lug hubs and Brakes seems like a great option and may be the way to go for a 9in fabricated housing.

https://www.bjsoffroad.com/Dana-60-Rear ... _1943.html

You can get disc brakes with a parking brake option and a removable slug. This also gives you more access to brake pads, seals and bearings at a standard parts store when needed.

Both systems have there pros and cons. In my case, it is not a race vehicle, just a heavy duty play pre-runner that is not a daily driver and will see trailer time out to the desert much of the time.

David Wright

[ntsqd]

MISF grenaded a D60 with double-splined drive slugs with a simple, from a stop, light throttle left turn. The internal splines in the LH slug sheared off, resulting back-lash destroyed everything else. Literally only the housing was salvageable. That has made me very leery of drive slugs and is why the D60 that I'm building for the Blanc-Oh has bolt-in flanged drive axle shafts. Prior to the catastrophic failure it seemed like MISF was always battling a weeping leak with that system. The caps would leak or the inner seals would leak. He'd fix one leak and another would op up. It just would never stay dry.

The Cadillac type calipers supplied in that kit are notoriously bad parking brakes. When they actually do work, they don't do a great job and most of the time they don't work. I'm working on adapting Explorer RDB's to my D60.

[ChaseTruck754]

I'm working on adapting Explorer RDB's to my D60.

I'm interested to see what it takes. Are you talking exlporer rotors, or I'm assuming just the caliper and e-brake setup? I figured F-150/expedition setup would be a little more size appropriate?

[ntsqd]

I may have to move to the F-150 system, don't know yet. I did ponder it before starting with the easy route and going with the Exploder kit. It is a common thing to see people use too much rear brake in rear disc conversions, and then have to dial their performance way down with a proportioning valve or much rarer, an LBS valve and possibly both. I am hoping that the Explorer system is closer to a Natural Bias and won't need much tuning. They seem to work well on Early Broncos without much tuning. I'll guess that it will leave a little on the table, but when compared to rear drums....

So far the rotor has been easy IF you're willing to accept that it has to be modified and that it has to be on the rear of the wheel hub's flange. I was not at all happy about that as I prefer to use wear parts in their unmodified form, but there is no other option. I doubt that the F-150 rotor is much different in this regard. Would likely have to go to the F-250 system for it to work w/o modifications. The current adapter design is just a ring of aluminum with counter-bored stud holes and tapped rotor mount holes. It will need a pilot bore to locate on the wheel hub and pilot step to locate the rotor. The rotor itself will need to have it's pilot hole opened up significantly to clear the wheel hub and have 8 holes drilled in it for mounting to the adapter ring.

The Backing Plate- Caliper Mount is another matter. Just as I was really getting into it my subscription to SolidWorks expired and the replacement program is reportedly NOT worth the cost of the subscription. I've yet to find a way to even get a free trial of it to see if it is worth the cost, either pay the subscription or don't. With the barest, most basic seat of SW running about $4500 I don't see that option happening for only "hobby" use. I have only the barest beginnings of a model for the plate - mount, not enough to be useful in determining any interference's.

[ChaseTruck754]

I may have to move to the F-150 system, don't know yet. I did ponder it before starting with the easy route and going with the Exploder kit. It is a common thing to see people use too much rear brake in rear disc conversions, and then have to dial their performance way down with a proportioning valve or much rarer, an LBS valve and possibly both. I am hoping that the Explorer system is closer to a Natural Bias and won't need much tuning. They seem to work well on Early Broncos without much tuning. I'll guess that it will leave a little on the table, but when compared to rear drums....

I understand this for sure. It's just the broncos can be ass heavy pigs. More so than many pickup type setups, and similar to ratio in weight distribution, but still heavier than an exploder.

So far the rotor has been easy IF you're willing to accept that it has to be modified and that it has to be on the rear of the wheel hub's flange. I was not at all happy about that as I prefer to use wear parts in their unmodified form, but there is no other option. I doubt that the F-150 rotor is much different in this regard.

Agreed on this regard too. Although I've come to accept having to re-drill rotors in scenarios like this where adapting to older trucks when much of the new stuff is metric.

The Backing Plate- Caliper Mount is another matter. Just as I was really getting into it my subscription to SolidWorks expired and the replacement program is reportedly NOT worth the cost of the subscription. I've yet to find a way to even get a free trial of it to see if it is worth the cost, either pay the subscription or don't. With the barest, most basic seat of SW running about $4500 I don't see that option happening for only "hobby" use. I have only the barest beginnings of a model for the plate - mount, not enough to be useful in determining any interference's.

That's a small part of why I never got into solidworks. I use autocad for work every day so I just use that for everything. I draw in 2d for work so I never got proficient in 3d, but I can design even 3d assemblies pretty well from multiple 2d angles. Pretty much like drawing plans for a machine shop the old skool way.

[PaulW]

Rear disk brakes
My experience
New Wilwood Explorer calipers with the small shoes for parking installed on a 10” 35 spline Ford axle – no C clip
Result was poor because the Wilwood retainer was so weak that it allow the bearing to move and the result was a huge loss of diff fluid. Parking brake not very effective but was ok. Never tried it on a steep hill when truck not in park. Regular braking was very good. Not recommended.

New Varga calipers from an early Mustang turbo installed on a Tubeworks 40 spline full floater. Parking brake is incorporated into caliper. Parking brake not effective because the brake pedal needed to be strengthened to prevent bending in order to get good park braking. Regular braking was excellent and normal parking was ok, but on a very steep hill when the truck was not in park it slipped.

Not sure but I seem to remember both required welding an adapter to the housing. Glen did the installation.

Never needed a proportion valve. Balance was never a complaint.

[toddz69]

So the Varga caliper parking brake didn't work well for after all, Paul? Sorry to hear that.

Todd Z.

[ntsqd]

I read that with regret too. I had high hopes that Varga had solved the problem. Hydro-Mech calipers have long been something difficult to make work well. My wilwood engineering mentor pointed this out to me in about 2000-2001. Generating the kind of clamping load needed isn't easy to do w/o a lot of cable pull length. He should have known then as he was working on the hydro-mechanical caliper that John Deere wanted for their UTV.

The Explorer kit that I purchased uses all Ford OEM type parts, and being a full-float the bearing retainer is a non-concern.

I suspect that the drum p-brake functionality is directly tied to the rotor hat's internal diameter. Which would be a good argument for the F-150 or even the F-250 versions as they likely have a larger ID.

[ChaseTruck754]

I suspect that the drum p-brake functionality is directly tied to the rotor hat's internal diameter. Which would be a good argument for the F-150 or even the F-250 versions as they likely have a larger ID.

Yes seems like it would be a pad to hat contact surface area thing. The F-250/350 versions from 10.5 sterlings in the early 2000 superduties are much bigger than the exploder ones of that era if I remember right. Not sure what year you are using or how parts have transformed over the years as larger wheels come back into fashion and land on production cars allowing for larger overall rotors/brake setups.

Also not sure what you end goal or expectations are with the parking brake is but I added a line lock into the system on my crew cab as a back up factor. Depress the brake, turn the line lock and it should stay put for a bit at least. Doesn't work with a broken line of course, but normal brakes don't at that point either.