e4od torque converter not locking up

[kahuna bill]

went out to borrego over the weekend and wheeled pinyon mt and ocotillo wells. fun trip but now my torque converter isn't locking up.
Abnormal slipage in 3 & 4 but nothing that seems like excessive or abnormal slip in 1 or 2. I've got a noise coming from the bell housing as well. It sounds like a baseball card flopping against bike spokes. The noise is present in P and N but goes away in R, D, 2, & 1 gears.
I've checked all of my wiring harnesses and under the dash as best i can but I can't find any loose wires.
Any ideas on where i should trouble shoot?

sump trans temp never got abouve 190, and fluid doesn't smell burned. trans was rebuilt 10k ago.

my cruise control also went out on the same trail where the torque converter stopped locking up. I don't know if they're related but just throwing it in there.

[300]

Does it try to lock up and just slip? Are you getting the flashing O/D light? They will wear or out or fail the clutch in the torque converter. I just replaced the one in my F350. It was slipping mostly on the shift into O/D and then as it got worse it began flashing the light and had a noticable slip when you really got on it. It was also hard to tell in the lower gears. They will make all kinds of nasty and bizarre noises when they begin to fail and mine didn't really show burned oil either.

If it is not even attempting to lock up, then it is a different matter. Could be related to a speed sensor but I think the cruise control uses the one at the axle and not any of them in the trans.

[kahuna bill]

No lock up at all. But i get good solid shifts up and down. So I don't think its the clutches.
I'll check the speed sensor and gears.
But would the odd noise in park and neutral still be around if the ss was busted?

[funinthesun95]

This happened to my F250 with E4od. tran had 30k on it pulled pan looked for metal it was good......It ended up being a transfer case seal / transmission seal.....tranny lost pressure due to the bad seal.....no leak will be seen but fluid will be pulled into the t case and is unable to return to the tranny and it cause pressure issue. it made the same sound in park you are talking about as well. I replaced all the t case seals and it was back to good. The only reason I found the issue was my buddy Bill is a ford tranny Tech and he helped me figure it out other wise I was about to pulling the E40d again....hah... The t case had 120000 on it with limited use so I did not do anything when I replaced the trans

This could be your problem....

Also you said your tranny was new is the torque converter? did your T case get any love when the tranny was done?

"my cruise control also went out " ford had a recall on this have you had it fixed yet? just because the issue was prone to starting a fire. I did it my self just got the part from ford... easy enough.

[300]

It is a clutch inside the torque converter that engages to lock it up and does nothing in the lower gears. If it isn't even trying to engage at all I might suspect something other than the torque converter.

[PaulW]

Noise is a BAD omen and probably will need to have a close look after removing the thing.
Do the easy stuff for starters.
Drop the pan change the filter. Purge the converter of its fluid by draining the thing with the plug on the tc. Closely examine the fluid both from the pan and the TC to look for metal. Look at the pan magnet Use a tool box magnet to look at the TC metal. Pour all the fluid thru a fine mesh cloth to catch & see nonmagnetic metal.
No metal then fill with new fluid and test drive.
Yes metal them take the thing apart and get the thing rebuilt or replaced.
PaulW

[PaulW]

The nice thing about the TC lock up switch with the green and red light is you always know how the TC is operating.
http://www.gofastbroncos.com/forum/view ... itch#p3048
I never use the switch, but constantly watch the lights do their thing.
I suppose when the light says it is locked and you feel it is slipping that would be a good data point.
PaulW

[Rmc]

To my knowledge the torque convertor only goes into full lock up in od. The rest of the time it's partially slipping. A nearly identical senerio happened on my friends explorer, turned out it was a cracked flex plate in combo with a bad torque convertor. The clicking and clunking was chunks of the flex plate still attached but the cintrifical force allowed the material to flex out and tag the bellhousing with each rotation. When you slowed down it went away. 1 and second worked like normal, 3rd the clicking started, I'd noticeable slippage and maintained clicking. My advise remove the starter, get a flashlight and give a visual inspection to the flex plate. It's possible it's a similar senerio but hard to say for certain.

[PaulW]

How the E4OD works:
No partial lock like many late model trannys. E4ODs are two position devices - lock or unlock. Works the same in low range as high range.
in gears 3 & 4. Pretty simple.
Unlock on coast
lock on acceleration.
The 4th gear lockout switch on the shifter does not affect operation in 3rd gear.
In gears 1 & 2 always unlocked.
All the above is revised if one has a manual lock switch.
Paul
===============

To my knowledge the torque convertor only goes into full lock up in od. The rest of the time it's partially slipping. A nearly identical senerio happened on my friends explorer, turned out it was a cracked flex plate in combo with a bad torque convertor. The clicking and clunking was chunks of the flex plate still attached but the cintrifical force allowed the material to flex out and tag the bellhousing with each rotation. When you slowed down it went away. 1 and second worked like normal, 3rd the clicking started, I'd noticeable slippage and maintained clicking. My advise remove the starter, get a flashlight and give a visual inspection to the flex plate. It's possible it's a similar senerio but hard to say for certain.

[philofab]

I've cracked a few Ford flexplates... the one in my buddies dually cracked after a 120mph run against a Mustang, made a weird noise during starting and slipped a little at higher speeds. Only figured it out after replacing two starters to try and make the noise go away.

That noise could also be the oil pump in the T-case spinning but that wouldn't explain the slipping.

Does the trans shift really hard now? Have you checked for transmission soft codes?

[Rmc]

How the E4OD works:
No partial lock like many late model trannys. E4ODs are two position devices - lock or unlock. Works the same in low range as high range.
in gears 3 & 4. Pretty simple.
Unlock on coast
lock on acceleration.
The 4th gear lockout switch on the shifter does not affect operation in 3rd gear.
In gears 1 & 2 always unlocked.
All the above is revised if one has a manual lock switch.
Paul
===============

To my knowledge the torque convertor only goes into full lock up in od. The rest of the time it's partially slipping. A nearly identical senerio happened on my friends explorer, turned out it was a cracked flex plate in combo with a bad torque convertor. The clicking and clunking was chunks of the flex plate still attached but the cintrifical force allowed the material to flex out and tag the bellhousing with each rotation. When you slowed down it went away. 1 and second worked like normal, 3rd the clicking started, I'd noticeable slippage and maintained clicking. My advise remove the starter, get a flashlight and give a visual inspection to the flex plate. It's possible it's a similar senerio but hard to say for certain.

So he could be looking at slipping bands, clutches, or leaking seal internally in combo perhaps with a cracked plate?

[baja-chris]

How the E4OD works:
No partial lock like many late model trannys. E4ODs are two position devices - lock or unlock. Works the same in low range as high range.
in gears 3 & 4. Pretty simple.
Unlock on coast
lock on acceleration.
The 4th gear lockout switch on the shifter does not affect operation in 3rd gear.
In gears 1 & 2 always unlocked.
All the above is revised if one has a manual lock switch.
Paul
===============

To my knowledge the torque convertor only goes into full lock up in od. The rest of the time it's partially slipping. A nearly identical senerio happened on my friends explorer, turned out it was a cracked flex plate in combo with a bad torque convertor. The clicking and clunking was chunks of the flex plate still attached but the cintrifical force allowed the material to flex out and tag the bellhousing with each rotation. When you slowed down it went away. 1 and second worked like normal, 3rd the clicking started, I'd noticeable slippage and maintained clicking. My advise remove the starter, get a flashlight and give a visual inspection to the flex plate. It's possible it's a similar senerio but hard to say for certain.

The E4OD in my Powerstroke will lock the converter by itself in 2nd gear under some conditions. Maybe unique to the program in the PCM for the powerstroke.

[kahuna bill]

wow, finally got it figured out. I'm sorry for taking so long to tackle this project but work literally pulls me away from my truck for months at a time.
But i'm back and working on it again.

PaulW your write up on how to lock out the torque converter was awesome. I installed the green and red LED indicator lights and it helped diagnose the problem.
Turns out the speed sensor was trashed. It looks like the transfer case and transmission have some serious movement when hauling ass in the washes. So much so that the top of the transfer case (where the speed sensor is located) had actually hit the bottom of the cab. This bent the speed sensor and didn't allow a signal to reach the ECM. And when the ECM doesn't see a signal from the SS it will only lock the torque converter in WOT. After following PaulW's instructions on wiring up the torque converter lock up and going for a test drive I saw that the ECM was locking up the torque converter in WOT via the indication of the green little light.
It was a hallelujah type of moment when i saw that green light come on. I was scared to death that it was going to be a wiring/electrical issue. Or worse, a computer issue. But thankfully it was only a 16$ part. Swapped it out and the transmission was behaving. And the shift points were much better as well.
To remedy the movement of the transfer case/tranmission i'm going to mock up a brace that attaches to the transfer case casing bolts and to a fabbed up skid plate. I'll use a poly bushing and round tube to make the brace.
As for why the movement occurs? i dunno. The transmission mount and engine mounts are two years old. Maybe 30 hours of off road use on them. Either way, it moves and it'll be addressed.
Thanks again everyone for all of your help and input.

[kahuna bill]

Here's the bent speed sensor

IMG_20140403_170142869.jpg (73.19 KiB) Viewed 2602 times